Home Wind Turbines, But Why Not ANWR too while we work on this..

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Permalink Reply by Karen Kline on July 16, 2008 at 9:36am

Because you can't take back that kind of damage!

But I'm sure big oil will prevail and profit at our expense.

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Permalink Reply by Brent Wakeman on August 7, 2008 at 6:49pm

do you have any idea what kind of mosquito swamp you are trying so hard to protect

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Permalink Reply by Debra Goldenberg on August 24, 2008 at 12:40pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANWR

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Permalink Reply by Home Wind Turbine on September 20, 2008 at 8:45pm

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Permalink Reply by Home Wind Turbine on July 16, 2008 at 9:58am

Hi Karen,

I appreciate your comment. On our ranch in far west texas, my dad wouldn't even kill a rattlesnake and wouldn't allow deer and antelope hunting. I'm definitely no slash and burn kind of person. But I do feel that our good intentions have resulted in some big problems. I'm afraid we have to go hard forward for the oil we can get while we work the rest out.

Jeff, I agree with you too. International waters first, now, but ANWR too. We can do both without making it too damaging but we can't just keep waiting and watching all our wealth and security dry up. While those who are not our friends get fat, rich, and powerful, our economy is in big trouble.

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Permalink Reply by David on July 16, 2008 at 10:14am

I have to say that all RESPONSIBLE options should be on the table. We've cut our own legs off by government restrictions of all types and now we're paying the price (literally) for our short sightedness. I notice that no one is crying when we try to get the Saudis to produce more oil. As long as we limit ourselves, we suffer.
I want to be clear. I think our best option for the future is clean, renewable energy (solar, wind, natural gas and electric) but for now, we need to be doing everything to free ourselves from foreign oil.

WindEnergy7 said:

Hi Karen,

I appreciate your comment. On our ranch in far west texas, my dad wouldn't even kill a rattlesnake and wouldn't allow deer and antelope hunting. I'm definitely no slash and burn kind of person. But I do feel that our good intentions have resulted in some big problems. I'm afraid we have to go hard forward for the oil we can get while we work the rest out.

Jeff, I agree with you too. International waters first, now, but ANWR too. We can do both without making it too damaging but we can't just keep waiting and watching all our wealth and security dry up. While those who are not our friends get fat, rich, and powerful, our economy is in big trouble.

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Permalink Reply by Steven Woodcock on August 15, 2008 at 6:00pm

You're dead right David--ALL options need to be examined. To pursue any single "solution" as THE solution is only putting all our eggs in one basket--and that's what we're dangerously close to now.

A diverse and wide-ranging set of energy sources allows for a more diverse and robust economy, for both ourselves and the world. It's the only rational solution.

Steve

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Permalink Reply by Tim Louks on July 16, 2008 at 10:22am

I agree. I'm fine with Pickens plan. To become energy independant will require a myriad of alternatives, all of which I'm for. These alternatives all require time to implement. Just think about the infrastructure changes required for the various alternatives. This country will be dependant upon oil for some time. When Iran can threaten to close the straits of Hormuz an threaten 40% of the worlds oil supply, the oil futures market skyrockets. This country must use it's oil resources for the time it takes to convert to alternatives. This will help to stabilize oil prices and speculation until we can finally say goodbye to oil.

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Permalink Reply by SJC on July 17, 2008 at 9:45am

The beauty of solar and wind freeing up NG for cars is it is being done and can be done on an even larger scale. We get 50% of our electricity from NG fired power plants in the west. California has about 1 in 8 of the personal automobiles on the road in the U.S. If we can put a dent in this and tell the oil companies that we have an alternative, it will have more than just a passing impact on the oil dealers.

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Permalink Reply by Peak Dad on July 16, 2008 at 10:30am

WindEnergy7, regarding ANWR...

(copied from recent post on thread "How much time to prepare before economic collapse?)

Jeff, you mention the HUGE find (Carioca Field) off the coast of Brazil. When the news first hit back in April of its discovery, I, and many others were quite skeptical of its stated potential reserves of ~33 bil barrels. If it turns out true, it would be the 3rd largest field discovery in history (1st - SA Ghawar, 2nd - Kuwait Burgan) and the largest since around 1970. I hope it is true.

Given that Prudhoe Bay (~25 bil), Cantarell (~20 bil), and North Sea Region (~65 bil) are all in statistically evident production declines, Carioca & Tupi need to be ramped up asap just to make up for the aggregate production shortfalls of the forementioned.

Here's the scary part though. With a little long division (33 billion total / 85 million barrels per day of world consumption = 388 days of new supply) you can see that we are going to need literally dozens of such discoveries over the next 50 years to meet the estimates of future world demand. I just don't think it is going to happen.

ANWR estimates range between zero and infinity with most agreeing that it holds between 9-16 billion barrels. Long division (16 billion total / 21 mbd of US consumption = 762 days or 2 yrs and 32 days). So, it should be clear to anyone that these reserves have no real power other than to buy a little more time.

Personally, I think ANWR should be viewed as a natural form of SPR. It should be explored, quantified, inventoried, and prepared for drilling --- but no more. If we tap ANWR and SPR to enable us to continue driving our SUV's to the mall for a little while longer - we will be making a devastating mistake. When the time comes when we really need it, it will be gone.

In the meantime, we Americans are going to need to buckle down, focus, and embark on building a bridge to our energy future.

AND, we need to do it now!! Just flip on CNBC (yes even CNBC) and you can see that we don't have a lot of time left before our ability to invest in this transaction will have evaporated.

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Permalink Reply by georege on July 16, 2008 at 10:40am

Giving the Big Oil Companies ANWR or more offshore leases does not solve any of the problems. The problems are not supply. It's control which is held by a select few who are acting as a monopoly fueled by the OPEC Cartel. When they have not added refieries to make gasoline/diesl and when fuel prices are $2-$3 dollars less in Mexico, it makes me wonder who is allowing these Cartels to fix prices and why? Wht was the US Energy policy NEGOTIATED with the Oil Cartel and Energy companies behind closed doors and why ahve we NEVER seen any of these negotiations for policy? What was bought and sold? Is this some kind of political payback for campaign promises and election appointments? I think the evidence points toward colusion , price fixing and monopolies. So you want to reward these criminals by opening ANWR andmore offshore drilling for what?

Mr. Pickens has a plan to get us going in a new directiona nd I for one say AMEN!

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Permalink Reply by Brian on July 16, 2008 at 11:05am

Just because someone (with money falling out of his pockets) comes up with some new scheme doesn't make "The Plan" worth a hoot.

I have a plan, too... let's just invent personal generators that run on household wastes! We'll generate energy, cut pollution, make landfills a thing of the past, and stick it to those bad ol' OIL COMPANIES. They already do this kind of thing in large scale plants... we just need to make a smaller version for home use.

There.

There's my plan.

Now let me go buy some radio time and lure a bunch of good-intentioned (but ill-informed) dupes to help me!

Look people, we need to drill- NOW. We need to work on all sorts of alternative energy, too. Drilling in ANWR is a complete no-brainer. Truly only the brainless (and some good-intentioned but, again, ill-informed environmental screwballs) oppose it.


Karen: You said can't take back the damage from drilling in a teensy tiny part of a vast wasteland... but it's okay to build thousands upon thousands of windmills all over the landscape- and then dig up the ground and tear up the countryside to add new infrastructure to support the grid required to service those mills. Yeah, *THAT* is smart and does no harm but drilling through permafrost where almost NOTHING LIVES is damaging? Again... good intentions, really poorly thought out plan.

Steve: You said: We won't be ready to pump for 10 years. Really? As a civilization we made it to the MOON in less time. The '10-year' thing is a lie. If we wanted to get it done we could do it in 2-3. I am an engineer... and trust me we can do some pretty amazing things virtually overnight.

And to T. Boone Pickens: I'm sure most people believe you're some benevolent senior citizen just trying to save the world for his grandchildren but let's be realistic. There's cash to be had by going green. There's money to be made or you wouldn't be trying to push this stuff. What happens when the wind doesn't blow? Ooops. What happens when flooding knocks out the windmills? What happens when these things need repair? Who fixes the spoiled landscapes, the wasted farmland? Who? Ahhh... the U.S. taxpayer, right? You want us to subsidize this thing- or give you a big fat tax break for being so green, eh? Or... better... you want us to build it and manage it and regulate it... and hold endless meetings on the environmental impact and... on and on and on. Go back to drilling for oil and bouncing your grandchildren on your knee. You'll do the world a hell of a lot more good.




georege said:

Giving the Big Oil Companies ANWR or more offshore leases does not solve any of the problems. The problems are not supply. It's control which is held by a select few who are acting as a monopoly fueled by the OPEC Cartel. When they have not added refieries to make gasoline/diesl and when fuel prices are $2-$3 dollars less in Mexico, it makes me wonder who is allowing these Cartels to fix prices and why? Wht was the US Energy policy NEGOTIATED with the Oil Cartel and Energy companies behind closed doors and why ahve we NEVER seen any of these negotiations for policy? What was bought and sold? Is this some kind of political payback for campaign promises and election appointments? I think the evidence points toward colusion , price fixing and monopolies. So you want to reward these criminals by opening ANWR andmore offshore drilling for what?

Mr. Pickens has a plan to get us going in a new directiona nd I for one say AMEN!

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