PickensPlan

Yes, Nat. Gas & Propane powered vehicles are a great idea, but most drivers in Florida (and the rest of the US) can't afford the $4000+ to convert their current vehicles, unless the government gives them about $3000 in tax credits. So, how do we do this?
Auto sales are way down, especially with the less fuel efficient vehicles. I was going to offer this idea for sale to auto dealers, but decided to give it a way for free. If any auto dealer wants to thank me, just convert my two cars for free.

OK, here is the idea: Install and warranty the NG conversion at the dealership so the customers can finance the cost. If they have a good trade, offer the used car buyer the option of having the NG conversion installed and warrantied too. Then advertise that you have vehicles that your customers would only have to pay about $2.50 per gallon to drive. No limitations like Chrysler is having. Not good enough? How about this idea: in addition to the fixed NG/propane tank, have a place in the trunk where you can attach a standard propane tank that you can pick up at many stores. If you run low on NG or propane, you can hook up one of these tanks and get to a normal NG filling station.

Nat. Gas and Propane companies, are you listening? Offer to install a hook up at current gas stations for free (or at cost with financing). How about offering training to auto dealerships in Nat. gas / Propane conversions? Can you see the $$$ in your future?

If you or your business has a problem, and you need a practical solution, ask an engineer. Ask me, I am reasonable and have great ideas, such as this one.

Tags: Conversion, Gas, Natural, automobiles, propane

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Again, there is a Federal tax credit...
`But nowhere near enough to cover the costs.
I have a 4 cylinder 2007 Hyundai Sonata (built in USA). So I would have to pay as much to convert my car to NG or propane as I paid for the car itself. Then I would have to pay $10k to get a tank installed at my home. Then more to get a filling connection to my car.

Maybe if I won the lottery.
Have you checked to see if there are any fill sites near your home? Sometimes having a fill appliance at your home isn't logical. You will never be able to get a Hyundai Sonata converted unless the EPA backs off on the kits because there are no kits for Hyundai's. No one here is advocating this for EVERY car but the more of them we can get on natural gas, the lower gasoline will go, making your Sonata fine as is and it's a 4 cylinder anyway.
None. I know about the lack of kits. I am hoping to be able to convert to propane, since I can get that here. It is still too expensive for the equipment. To have a 1000 gal. tank installed at my home, to run a gas tankless water heater is close to $10k. It is like the companies don't want to sell their products. Most of the propane companies failed to respond to requests for quotes. This is after I e-mailed, called and wrote to them. Only one company actual gave me a quote: Amerigas. None of the other companies ever responded. I would love to own a business that is doing so good I can ignore any requests for new business.
Well, good luck. I hope you find your solution. I think each of us is really on our own in this because Congress is deadlocked about it. They don't want to open up new drilling even though most of the country is for it. Every other country in the world is laying claim to and locking down oil supplies but our guys sit up there and argue and obstruct. Harry Reid is now using parliamentary procedures to block any debate on new exploration because there is bipartisan support. It's hard to believe that just a few up there can stop the entire body from functioning. Such a pile of crap. These old guys need to be voted out.
Rob,
The information in your posting was of great help to me. I live in Ohio and I've had a hard time finding any resources for converting my 06 Dodge Caliber.
have u done this ? and what is the mpg of NG what is the cost of a unit to fill or compress or what ever has to be done.

not that i care about the government but how will they tax it like they do gas and diesel they will fight it tooth and nail
In the USA TODAY newspaper state by state section for Texas there is a story about a school system that ordered new buses from the factory to run on propane. This was done as a cost saving move. The real answer is to have the auto manufactures build engines designed to run on propane, not just conversion kits. There are factors like possible higher compression ratios and different cooling that a conversion kit can't address well. A factory built propane engine should not cost much more than a gas engine. A propane car would probably be the cheapest to build due to the high pressure storage problems involved with LNG.

An interesting side light involving safety. I am a fire department officer. I would much rather deal with the problem of a car with a leaking propane or NG tank than with a leaking gas tank. With gasoline I have to use one type of foam with regular gasoline and a different type with ethanol fuel and you never know which you have. then you have the problem of decontamination. With propane I can disperse it with a fan. I have to keep it out of low areas like storm drains because it is heavier than air, but I have to do that with gasoline. With natural gas I just have to keep a safe area and it takes care of itself because it is lighter than air. If it has ignited you just let it burn itself off. The biggest danger is if there is a fire that heats up the tank raising the pressure to the point where the tank ruptures like a popped balloon and the whole load ignites at once. Good safety relief valves would solve this problem. Also note that by law you can not transport a portable propane tank in the passenger compartment of a car meaning SUV or hatchback can't have one inside.
This is a legitimate warning on propane tanks. Wife of man who sent it to me last month is a Monterrey Park City (California) Policewoman. I checked out the website cited. More information can be obtained with a 'google' search. I used "Anhydrous ammonia and propane cylinders" as the 'search' item and got 701 "hits". Examine propane tanks carefully before buying. Notify authorities immediately if any look 'suspicious'.

I feel this warning is particularly important for people who might plan to build their own conversion system, using propane tanks purchased on the open market.

> Subject: FW: Propane Tank Warning
>
> For those of you who like to grill during the summer, here's a safety
> announcement you should be aware of... 'There was a meth training/workshop
> yesterday and there was a lot of great new information presented. I wanted to
> let you all know about one thing that I was not aware of.
>
> Meth cooks are getting the propane tanks from the exchanges at Wal-Mart,
> Kroger, etc. and emptying them of the propane. Then, they are filling them
> with anhydrous ammonia (which they now have a recipe for by the way). After
> they are finished with them, they return them to the store.
> They are then refilled with propane and sent back for you and me to buy.
> Anhydrous ammonia is very corrosive and weakens the structure of the tank. It
> can be very dangerous when mixed with propane and hooked up to our grills,
> etc.
>
> You should inspect the propane tank for any blue or greenish residue around
> the valve areas. If it is present, refuse to purchase that one.'
>
> You should check out the following website for more details. They also have
> pictures you can show.
>
> http://www.npga.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=529
> <" target=_blankhttp://www.npga.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=529>;
>
John,

First, it may seem like a matter of semantics, btu it is important to note that the real LP gas conversion involves minor changes to the engine of your car but major changes to the fuel storage and delivey system in your car. Your are correct in that the cost penalty for anLP engine is small, but the cost penalty for an LP gas car can be substantial.

Second, what are your feelings about the safety of an LP fueled vehicle that is parked in a closed garage?

Ken Goss
As long as it's not leaking, it should be OK, same with a gasoline powered vehicle. Gas fumes go boom just like propane. Since propane is not compressed like CNG, why should it need a "tank" like tank when gasoline does not? Both are fire and explosion hazards in some conditions, but outside where we drive, gasoline is more dangerous.

We are being ripped off.
Jeff,

Propane is not compressed?????? What makes it come out of the tank? Magic? The only thing that keeps propane liquid inside the tank is the pressure. The reason that you need a license to dispense the stuff in most states is because it is quite dangerous to handle and the average person does not have the safety training to handle it safely.

Ken Goss

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