How much time to prepare before economic collapse??

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Permalink Reply by American in the D.R. on August 19, 2008 at 4:02pm

Me thinks that flipping will be a problem for a while. You still have to pay all the overhead, fix it back up and maintain it. Great if you have lots of cash. Flipping could be flopping. Seen it before.

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Permalink Reply by Peak Dad on August 19, 2008 at 7:11pm

Hi Larry,

You can reach me via private email. All here are welcome to contact me personally.

PeakDad@gmail.com

Permalink Reply by American in the D.R. on August 19, 2008 at 7:20pm

Don't you go and sell my.... our property.

Permalink Reply by American in the D.R. on August 19, 2008 at 4:25pm

WHEN WILL WASHINGTON AND THE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT THE REST OF THE WORLD DOES NOT PLAY BY AMERICAN RULES!
www.cnn.com 4.22 pm

"There are the bloodstains on the wall, and here it is dried on the floor," Abu Muhanad said as he walked through a torture chamber in a Baghdad mosque where more than two dozen bodies have been found.

BAGDAD, IRAQ(CNN)
Two women clutch photographs of loved ones believed killed by the Mehdi Army.

(1 of 2 more photos » "And here, a woman's shoes. She was a victim of the militia. We found her corpse in the grave.")

Chunks of hair waft lazily across the floor in the hot Baghdad breeze.

"This was the torture room," said Muhanad, the leader of a U.S.-backed armed group that now controls the mosque.

"This is what they used for hanging," he said, pointing to a cord dangling from the ceiling. "Here is a chain we found tied to an old man's body." Go inside the mosque's torture chamber »

The horrific scene at this southwestern Baghdad mosque is what officials say was the work of a Shiite militia known as the Mehdi Army. Residents who live near the mosque say they could hear the victims' screams.

The militia had been in control of the mosque, called Adib al-Jumaili, from at least January 2007 until May of this year. Residents say coalition forces weren't in the region and the torture and killings went unchecked.

Some of the victims were accused of being spies for U.S. forces. Other family members don't know why their loved ones disappeared. The family members at the mosque who spoke to CNN were all Shiite, the same branch of Islam as the Mehdi militia. But, they say, some of the victims were Sunni as well. Watch mosque atrocities uncovered »

The neighborhood lies in an area that became one of the capital's many sectarian fault lines when violence was at its worst.

It's been about three months since the Mehdi Army, loyal to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, abandoned this mosque as it withdrew from several strongholds across the country.

Spray painted on the walls is a chilling warning: "Spies, you will dig your own graves. Long live the Mehdi Army."

Now the mosque is under the watch of the Sons of Iraq, a local armed group that is largely financed by the Americans working alongside the Iraqi police. They are charged with trying to keep the peace in the neighborhood.

Muhanad is their leader.

"We found this chain on an old man's corpse that we dug out of the grave," he said, gesturing to a bloodied chain on the floor. "We recovered about 22 corpses and then another five."

Only now are people able to understand the true magnitude of the Shiite militia's atrocities and the brutal laws they were enforcing on the people.

"This was my son's grave," Abu Wissam said, pointing to one of the many shallow holes in the mosque's garden. "We recovered his corpse completely rotten. His hands and legs were amputated, and his head was decapitated."

"He was just a college graduate," his mother sobbed, clutching her 25-year-old son's photo.

They say the Mehdi Army abducted their son about a year ago, accusing him of being a traitor. They shot up and looted his home. The family fled.

A gruesome video of their son's mutilated body was delivered to their doorstep.

The militia "still raid our homes," Abu Wissam said. "Their families are in the district. The day before yesterday, at noon, they tried to assassinate me, but I was able to call the police for help."

The neighborhood is eerily deserted. Most of the residents fled the militia's reign; many who stayed bore the brunt of the violence. Homes stand abandoned, shops shuttered, buildings shot up.

A single car drives down the main street as a pack of dogs runs through the twisted piles of metal that was once an outdoor market.

Lingering at the mosque are a handful of residents whose loved ones were also abducted, looking for clues.

"They said they were just taking him for a few minutes, for an investigation," said Karima, who only wanted to be identified by her first name, as her eyes filled with tears. "But they never released him and we heard he might be buried behind the mosque."

Umm Diab's breath came in shallow gasps as tears flowed from her turquoise-green eyes. She wiped them away using the corner of her abaya, or robe. In her hand, there's a passport photo of her father, who was abducted by the militia.

"All we want are their dead bodies," she said.


Although the Mehdi Army has moved out of this mosque and is less visible on the street, residents know that they're not gone.

"They're still threatening us," Umm Diab said.

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Permalink Reply by Richard Bibb on August 19, 2008 at 6:19pm

It is a sad commentary that stories such as this are downplayed, or downright denied, by the MSM by and large.

When the west finally confronted Hitler even his most unrepentent apologists finally had to acknowledge the evidence forever captured in the grainy photographs, and even witnessed firsthand, by the thousands of aged beyond their years liberators.

When the veil came down upon the Soviet Union even their most unrepentent apologists had to acknowledge the failure of the utopia that never pretended, even to itself, to strive for the ideals so naively espoused by Marx as practiced by Lenin,Stalin and the grisly gang who followed in their wake.

And even now, when wickedness is so openly practiced in name of the various perversions of Islamic religon we see, apologists abounding who claim we just don't understand as if understanding and enough self-loathing could explain away the torture cells and mutilated bodies so characteristic of this brand of sadism while so suggesstive of the 20th centuries twin barbarisms of Nazism and Communism.

But that is "impolite" as if somehow to condemn the indefensible equates to some vile form of prejudice, racism, or any of the other "isms" those so sensibilities seem so acute to our persecutors are so quick to apply to those who dare to call abject evil by name.

I remember reading a quote as a child - the eigth grade I believe - that stuck with me. This was during what we quaintly call the "Vietnam" era. I recall it attributed to the Marine Corps and it seems fitting to be so associated even if my recolletcion proves faulty.

Perhaps someone more learned than I can correct any error my memory introduces. It was: "Those who are too civilized to tolerate the horror of war are doomed to be enslaved by the uncivilized who can".

Yes the rest, or a very large and perhaps growing portion of, the world does not play by our rules. If we cannot even discuss, or tolerate the discussion of, the barbarity that confronts us, how can we be expected to defeat, as we must defeat for our continued survival as a people, this clear and present danger to those who are willing to see it for what it is?

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Permalink Reply by American in the D.R. on August 19, 2008 at 7:26pm

Mr. Richard Bibb,

This is very powerfull/empowering. May I ask? Did you write this? Wonderful piece. Thank you.

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Permalink Reply by Richard Bibb on August 19, 2008 at 8:09pm

I can claim authorship of the piece - the quote, while I'm sure not exact to what I read 40 plus years ago, is true to its sentiment, if not perfect in its re-telling

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Permalink Reply by American in the D.R. on August 19, 2008 at 8:20pm

Hello Richard,

Thank you…

Well, like PD said… “Wow”.

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Permalink Reply by Peak Dad on August 19, 2008 at 7:27pm

Richard,

Wow, despite the horrific subject matter, that is a beautifully crafted piece of writing! Your talent for expression would be greatly appreciated by all on this thread. Please consider following along and helping us when you can.

We would love to hear more.

Thanks.

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Permalink Reply by Peak Dad on August 19, 2008 at 4:37pm

OK gang,

Tell me what you really think of Brazil. I'm taking a pretty big step here, and would like to hear from the guys.

ADR, you referrenced CNBC saying Brazil is growing by 30%. Sounds great... but is it? How does Brazil shake out in all of this 10 years down the road?

Normally, I'm quite a private guy - especially on the internet. But I'm among friends here and I have an announcement to make... along with my daughter (14) and son (10), my wife and I are expecting another little package!! Oh, my... I thought we were finished... but joyful nonetheless. She is due in late January, so we've been strongly considering Brazil as the birthplace. The baby would have duel citizenship and it apparently becomes much easier for parents to obtain visas.

None of us have lived outside of the country before, except my wife spent 18 months of college in Spain.

Beyond the usual adjustment pains of language and culture, do you have any insights, concerns, warnings, encouragements?

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Permalink Reply by American in the D.R. on August 19, 2008 at 4:40pm

PD.. you want me to start or let others.. :)

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Permalink Reply by Peak Dad on August 19, 2008 at 5:17pm

Please, go ahead ADR.

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