Big Three Please Do Not Squander Opportunity Build Dual Fuel Vehicles

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steve Willmorth on November 24, 2008 at 6:10pm

Tom,
Please read this article from AP today regarding the disappointing news regarding flex and dual fuel vehicles

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/22/AR2...

If the government can't use those vehicles they have, what gives them the right to demand anything from Detroit?

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Permalink Reply by Tom Hanson on November 24, 2008 at 9:13pm

Hi Steve,
Thanks for the link to that interesting, comprehensive and well written article about government struggles to try to implement confusing policies regarding flex fuel and dual fuel vehicles. I scanned through the four pages, enough to realize this article requires careful reading. The purpose of this reply is to thank you for your contribution to the discussion. However, my immediate response is to ask what the government experience has to do with the situation we are facing? From my quick scan, I think you have identifed an exhaustive expose of the chicken-egg problem, which was clearly stated in my original posting. Please remember that in the United States, the government is ... us! We can and will ask for policies to eliminate dependence on gasoline. (th)

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Permalink Reply by FredDC on December 4, 2008 at 8:53pm

First we need representatives that do not take lobbying contributions from the oil and gasoline industries anymore. They have been the driving force behind gasoline only vehicles and lower emissions standards. A new era has come and they need to give up their own dependencies on oil money.

New alternative fuel standards need to be developed and done quickly, we must demand it. The EPA needs a fire under their ... and we should be asking, no, demanding they get it done. In my opinion, if it is being successfully used abroad we should be able to use it here. Ford makes a 65 mpg clean diesel for Europe but not for here, and that's ridiculous.

I can see distributing stations offering a multiplicity of fuels. From bio-diesels to hydrogen, battery exchange stations have been proposed for electric vehicles. Hybrids are as close to dual power as you can get but they still use too much gasoline, future hybrids though promise to deliver 100 mpg + using hydrogen fuel cells to charge the batteries on board. Travel distances have increased to a 250 mile range per charge on some vehicles, full charging time reduced to four hours or less. The first of it's kind NG/electric hybrid was recently unveiled by Toyota.

The oil industry spent over $300 Mill. in campaign contributions in the past year alone. Check your representatives contributions records, if they appear to be on the dole challenge them to change, or face your opposition on his next election.

Sincerely, FredDC

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Permalink Reply by Tom Hanson on December 5, 2008 at 9:07am

Hi Fred,
Thanks for your contribution to the discussion. Your several points all look right to me. To pick up on just one of them, I heard something that might be of interest, in the past day or so. Apparently there is someone out West who has the entrepreneurial vision to propose offering electric car recharging stations every few miles. That would be (or could be) a way of breaking the chicken-egg problem for electric cars. Whether this visionary will receive funding is quite another question grin >>. My original posting had to do with a simple change that our existing Detroit automobile manufacturers could make in their product offerings. If they offered natural gas fuel capability along with gasoline, they could facilitate the rollout of the Pickens Plan. (th)

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Permalink Reply by FredDC on December 5, 2008 at 11:25am

I have suggested before that we build our new energy infrastructure, electric and NG conduits, along our interstate highways first; the land easements are already appropriated and it would help fuel distribution expand with it. With more electric power stations can manufacture hydrogen for fuel cells that recharge the batteries on board. They can also recharge batteries faster. There are battery swap stations in the works, they provide fully charged batteries in exchange for your used ones.
The most important fuels to distribute in order to reduce our dependence on foreign oil are bio-diesel and natural gas, mainly for our product and people transportation fleets. They use 38% of all gasoline and diesel used in the country annually and cannot function with electric motors yet. Natural gas is being used successfully in Europe and Australia for this purpose. The use of hydrogen as a mileage booster for these vehicles is also being explored.
Our government needs to get their act together and set the standards for the new energy grid and car manufacturers to follow. They are the egg that needs to hatch up a plan for our future. The DOE, DOT and EPA need to collaborate with the leading university and businesses scientists to come up with a plan for the next century; they have been so used to an oil driven economy it's going to take a real shake up to wake them up, make them go to work instead of politicking for lobby money. It may take a full revamping of these agencies to get the job done.
Sincerely, FredDC

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Permalink Reply by Tom Hanson on December 5, 2008 at 3:24pm

Hi Fred,
Neat response! Thanks!
As a follow up to your suggestion of building the new energy infrastructure along our interstate highways, I would like to mention that I attended a meeting of the Sierra Club here in Ohio, regarding the attempt by a major gas company to try to secure exemption from all environmental monitoring within half a mile of all their gas lines and well heads. At the meeting, I suggested that all utility lines of all kinds should be built under existing highways and roadways. The cost would be high, but the benefits would be enormous, over future decades. (th)

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Permalink Reply by RWC1972 on December 5, 2008 at 11:27am

Have you done any research on what it will cost the automakers to implement this change?

I can guarantee you that if this policy were to be implemented the bailout amount even more unreasonable.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Hanson on December 5, 2008 at 3:27pm

Hi RWC,
Interesting question. I have been told by GM's Public Relations department that they are actually making and selling dual fuel vehicles for the overseas market.
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Would it cost the automakers some money to build vehicles that people would want, if gasoline is to be phased out? I would imagine it would.
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Thanks for your contribution to the discussion! (th)

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Permalink Reply by Moneybizincomedotcom on December 6, 2008 at 11:15am

Individual choice my friend.

A major problem of these new autos being sold is that....

most have no real running power

there are too few alternative fueling stations for daily use

and the majority look stupid and sissy.

You get the auto makers to produce High End Performance Engines for interstate driving with power, and high end engines for trucks that can actually perform for a working vehicle and I promise you people will buy.

As long at those new vehicles look like something out of a peter pan movie most buyers will turn up their noses to them.

Please see Teslamotors.com to see an all electric car that can out run a corvette. But it costs $100,000. Figure out a way to assembly line make them here in America for $20,000 and they will sell like crazy.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Hanson on December 6, 2008 at 1:44pm

Hi MoneyBiz,

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion.

You have certainly articulated the traditional way of doing things grin >>. As was pointed out by an economist in an interview recently, gasoline is "Just So Good" !!! Nothing compares to it for energy per mass, or energy per volume. We humans are consuming the yolk of the egg in which we were born.

You have articulated the prevailing attitude very well.

The yolk is close to exhausted, and the rest of us on Earth are going to be expecting the same share as Uncle Sam has enjoyed for the past 100 years.

Have fun in your Tesla, while you can!

(th)

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Permalink Reply by Tom Hanson on December 6, 2008 at 2:20pm

Hi MoneyBiz,

I was thinking about you as I read an article by Susan Schreter. Susan is a consultant serving the entrepreneurial market.
Begin Quotation:
By SUSAN SCHRETER
SPECIAL TO THE P-I
End Quotation.
Begin Quotation:
Smart sales people know to ask prospective clients what they value most before starting their pitch.
End Quotation.
It occurred to me that your reply actually contains within it the seeds of a successful traditional capitalist approach to the problem of disappearing oil. Entrepreneurs who want to scoop up business need only provide an energy carrier which is as dense in energy and low in mass as gasoline. The answer may be "out there", just waiting for someone with a prepared mind to recognize it.
(th)

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