no hydrogen stations

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Permalink Reply by John Jackson on July 29, 2008 at 6:37pm

Check out http://newghas.com. We have a solution.

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Permalink Reply by Kenneth Koch on August 19, 2008 at 1:32pm

The holy grail is to store energy as hydrogen. Hydrogen can store 142 mega joules of energy per kilo gram. Our favorate energy source is gasoline(some hate it) at 46 mega joules per kilo gram. Better yet, If a hydrogen fuel cell is used to power a car it is 60 percent energy effecient versus an internal combustion energy at 16%. The Honda Clarity will travel 100 miles on a kilo gram of hydrogen while a Toyota Prius will tavel 7 miles on a kilo gram of gasoline.Theoretically the ICE is a Rube Goldberd design compared to the fuel cell. However; The hydrogen solution has been just as ellusive as the holy grail.

Here is good link for comparing energy densities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density

PS: The exhaust is water vapor. No pollution from the fuel cell!

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Permalink Reply by SJC on September 30, 2009 at 9:20am

Energy per kilogram may be important in aircraft, but not so much in cars. It may be cost per BTU that is more important. The cost of creating a kilogram of hydrogen is still higher than gasoline. Once gasoline goes and stays above $4 per gallon, we may see alternatives, but hydrogen will not be one of those anytime soon. IMO

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Permalink Reply by neil cox on September 30, 2009 at 5:21pm

Hi SJC: I agree, but energy per cubic meter is also important, and hydrogen does poorly. In a typical gasoline car, the total power plant (including fuel) is about one cubic meter = about half what is occupied by a hydrogen powered vehicle which can go 300 miles per refill. That means one less passenger, or very little cargo space. Making the vehicle bigger to recover the passenger or cargo space, means more air resistance, more material costs, more weight, bigger carbon foot print, and shorter range. Neil

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Permalink Reply by John Nistler on September 28, 2009 at 11:17am

Honda is leasing vehicles near Torrance, California because they have set up company ran hydrogen fuel stations. My company would be interested in the sale of hydrogen for these vehicles, but we have been unable to contact the right people to make the arraingments. Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks,
John

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Permalink Reply by Leslie G. on September 30, 2009 at 4:45am

Alternative Fueling Station Resources

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Permalink Reply by John Nistler on September 30, 2009 at 8:44am

Hi Leslie,
Thanks for the link. I verified the Austin/San Antonio/ Victoria Texas region. There are no hydrogen fueling stations in the area. We would like to put one in starting with the police department/city officials of the small Texas town where the waste water treatment facility is. From there, it could expand to a couple other municipalities in the area which would include the Sheriff department vehicles and DPS which come through the area.

The problem is we seem to be making no headway with the manufacturers of hydrogen vehicles especially Honda and GM who are leasing vehicles. The city that we are dealing with presently spends USD$31,000 in fuel per year (after tax rebate) and has two older vehicles scheduled for replacement to start with. The county budget is about 10X the City budget so there is good room for expansion.

Best regards,
John

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Permalink Reply by SJC on October 2, 2009 at 8:49am

As far as I can see, it is preferable to make the hydrogen near the point of use. I know of NO long distance hydrogen pipelines, because the H2 tends to leak out of almost everything. Even IF you could make a long distance hydrogen pipeline, chances are it would be VERY expensive.

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Permalink Reply by John Nistler on October 2, 2009 at 10:02am

Hello SJC, this is the overall intent. Sour gas pipeline utilizing kevlar, polyethelyne and pvc work for short effective pipeline transport which would actually allow us to set up a filling station outside of the Sewage treatment facility. This would allow the police and city officials to "fill up" without providing access to the facility. As we expand, we could also pipe to a nearby major highway to set up a "credit card" type filling station.

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Permalink Reply by neil cox on October 2, 2009 at 6:01pm

I think sour gas from a sewage disposal plant is mostly methane with a few percent hydrogen and other contaminants. High purity hydrogen is needed for fuel cells. A bit of hydrogen and ethane may be a plus for CNG = compressed natural gas which is mostly methane. Some of the contaminants in sour gas will damage the vehicle motor, so most of them need to be removed. Neil

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Permalink Reply by John Nistler on October 8, 2009 at 7:04pm

Hi Neil, I was not referring to the use of sour gas, just that there is a readily available pipe typically used for sour gas that should be applicable for hydrogen and not overly expensive.

The sour gas pipe available on the market have stainless steel fittings and uses a composite plastic for the length of the pipe (20ft). This plastic pipe described above is rated at up to 28% Hydrogen Sulfide content in Sour Gas but has not yet been rated for Hydrogen transport.

I agree, the hydrogen for cars needs to be clean. We do not produce sour gas. We use electrolysis to produce hydrogen and chlorine which is seperated at the facility. The Hydrogen could be pumped to an external filling station if the need or economics was there.

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