Cars That Run On Water - You Bet!

When I came upon the first discussion of this subject, I began to encounter snarky posts from arm chair physicists, and faux savants who condescended to explain to lesser minds that a hydrogen fueled internal combustion vehicle that ran on water was not possible.

Well, tonight I'm here to tell you that it is possible, it really isn't very complicated, that the technology already exists, and is well within reach.

Before posting the link, I would like to remind all who came to the Pickens Plan to to scoff, that contempt prior to investigation is the hallmark of fools.

http://www.physorg.com/news98556080.html

If we can dream it. We can do it.

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Permalink Reply by out-of-time on July 26, 2008 at 10:29am: nothing new there, its just not cost effective to make the alloy for that process. but this does make pure hydrogen that could be used to power a hydrogen engine; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Phil McQuillan on August 1, 2008 at 4:53pm: Using energy intensive aluminum to "save" energy? Hmmm. I wonder what Alcoa thinks of this idea...

The highlighted quote below (from the link you posted, which I did read) says this technology COULD be competitive with $3/gallon gasoline. CNG IS competitive with $3 gasoline right now and there is plenty of it and we needn't buy ANY of it from Saudi Arabia. Of course ALL sources of energy are important. I think it is crucial to get behing Pickens plan NOW; he is going to pull many types of Alternate energy (not just wind) by his coattails into the spotlight. Just watch.

Woodall said that because the technology makes it possible to use hydrogen instead of gasoline to run internal combustion engines it could be used for cars and trucks. In order for the technology to be economically competitive with gasoline, however, the cost of recycling aluminum oxide must be reduced, he said.

"Right now it costs more than $1 a pound to buy aluminum, and, at that price, you can't deliver a product at the equivalent of $3 per gallon of gasoline," Woodall said.

However, the cost of aluminum could be reduced by recycling it from the alumina using a process called fused salt electrolysis. The aluminum could be produced at competitive prices if the recycling process were carried out with electricity generated by a nuclear power plant or windmills. Because the electricity would not need to be distributed on the power grid, it would be less costly than power produced by plants connected to the grid, and the generators could be located in remote locations, which would be particularly important for a nuclear reactor to ease political and social concerns, Woodall said.

"The cost of making on-site electricity is much lower if you don't have to distribute it," Woodall said.

The approach could enable the United States to replace gasoline for transportation purposes, reducing pollution and the nation's dependence on foreign oil. If hydrogen fuel cells are perfected for cars and trucks in the future, the same hydrogen-producing method could be used to power them, he said.

"We call this the aluminum-enabling hydrogen economy," Woodall said. "It's a simple matter to convert ordinary internal combustion engines to run on hydrogen. All you have to do is replace the gasoline fuel injector with a hydrogen injector."

Even at the current cost of aluminum, however, the method would be economically competitive with gasoline if the hydrogen were used to run future fuel cells.

"Using pure hydrogen, fuel cell systems run at an overall efficiency of 75 percent, compared to 40 percent using hydrogen extracted from fossil fuels and with 25 percent for internal combustion engines," Woodall said. "Therefore, when and if fuel cells become economically viable, our method would compete with gasoline at $3 per gallon even if aluminum costs more than a dollar per pound."

The hydrogen-generating technology paired with advanced fuel cells also represents a potential future method for replacing lead-acid batteries in applications such as golf carts, electric wheel chairs and hybrid cars, he said.

The technology underscores aluminum's value for energy production.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Carl Fountain on August 22, 2008 at 8:51am: Your above quote says 25 % efficiency for fossil fuels in internal combustion engines. What if a little of a highly explosive gas (hydrogen) was introduced into the combustion chamber and raised the efficiency to just 50%? That's what on board hydrogen can do. The future will provide a lot more than that too.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by KENN DRESCHER on August 22, 2008 at 9:33am: How do you make H out of Aluminum?

Is it practicle to just shred-up used beer, and soda cans?

Could you make an accessory Unit to hook-up to your engine as easily as making an electrolsis Unit?

Be a great excuse to drink more beer... Almost better than fishin'!
Uh, you gotta run an errand Dear, great! How many 6 packs have you gotta go???; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Carl Fountain on August 23, 2008 at 11:37am: You can make hydrogen from aluminum by submersing it in water with potassium hydroxide in it. It produces hydrogen and the oxygen combines with the aluminum to make aluminum oxide that settles to the bottom. The electrolysis method is easier to turn on and off. Because of the control issues we have been spending our time using electrolysis.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by gabet123 on August 4, 2008 at 8:47pm: Hey guys,

We are doing what you are talking about!

I wanted to let everyone know about HHO-INFO.com. We are an international group of HHO builders who have come together in an open source environment to help evolve the technology. The technology has been around for many years but there has never been a builder’s community like this one before. Having a community of builders allows for a quicker and more efficient evolution of ideas and methods. We would like to invite anyone who is interested in this to come and take a look at what we are doing. Feel free to join us in our endeavor and take an active part in your future.

Gabet123
HHO-INFO.com; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Carl Carlson on August 5, 2008 at 8:11am: Ok - Assuming it works, where does all the water come from?

The US is already in a water crisis. Cities like Atlanta, Las Vegas, Phoenix, San Diego, and Dallas are already essentially water constrained.

If we start using water for propulsion, what happens to the cities (and people) that are experiencing water shortages?

Furthermore, the increase in biofuel production cause a 40% increase in food prices in 2007 alone. If the price of water doubles or trebles as it is used for propulsion, then what happens to the price of food which requires water for irrigation?

Are we ready for annual 100-200% increases in food prices as the price we pay for putting our water and food in our gas tanks?

If we pursue a water for fuel program, ultimately we will have to find a way to turn fuel in to water to slake our thirsts and water our crops. How much sense does that make?

It is time to do much less with much less. Not pretend we can do the same, or more, with less.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Carl Carlson on August 5, 2008 at 8:18am: "If we can dream it. We can do it."

I dream we put away our cars, grow our food locally, entertain ourselves at community gatherings, cease the worship, pursuit and purchase of things, and regard the garden spade and hoe as the ultimate in technology.

Today's drive-by world and incessant interconnectivity is a worthless sham of a life worth living. Why go to these useless extremes to attempt to preserve it for even one more decade?

Think about it. Are you happy in your commute, cubicle and suburban cul-de-sac? Is the rat race something you really wish to continue to engage in?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Carl Carlson on August 5, 2008 at 9:06am: From Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen

[edit] Automotive
See also: water-fuelled car and hydrogen fuel enhancement
Oxyhydrogen is often mentioned in conjunction with devices that claim to increase automotive engine efficiency or to operate a car using water as a fuel. Claims of water as fuel violate the Laws of thermodynamics. Increasing engine efficiency is limited by the fundamental properties of a heat engine and dependent on a variety of parameters including compression ratios, flame velocity, ignition timing, lean burn limit and load. Claims of using oxyhydrogen for hydrogen fuel enhancement are often exaggerated to the point of violating the Laws of Thermodynamics; the US DOT reporting that in "limited laboratory testing a hydrogen injection system installed on an older diesel truck engine operated at a series of constant speeds showed a 4 percent reduction in fuel use and a 7 percent reduction in particulate emissions".[8] The DOT also states that the hydrogen is supplied via electrolysis using the engine’s alternator or 12/24-volt electrical system.[8]; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Carl Fountain on August 22, 2008 at 8:56am: The World MUST be flat? We've already made all the worth while discoveries! NOT; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Home Wind Turbine on August 15, 2008 at 2:41pm: I saw the people on Good Morning America riding in a hydrogen car. It can be done, but they also showed the station where you fill it up, practically had it's own gigantic electrical facility to convert the hydrogen? I'm no expert or even an arm chair expert, too busy working on home wind systems.

But, you know, all this talk of cars that run on this/that....

What we should do is GET GOING with telecommuting. I mean 90% of what I do, I could do at home. There are way too many people driving daily to some job for no friggin' reason. Besides, the meetings suck at work! That's a great idea, pass a law outlwing stupid business meetings, that will foster more telecommuting, thus less gas is needed.. YEA.

Has anyone been to a good business meeting lately?.... That's what I thought.

small wind turbnes, home, farm, school
Personal Wind Generator Systems
WindEnergy7.Com, Contact Us!
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Permalink Reply by KENN DRESCHER on August 22, 2008 at 9:29am: I'm with you.

Already do most banking, bill paying O-L. Haven't mailed a letter in over a year!!!

Besides the coffee at those meetings, stale donuts always suck...; ▶ Reply to This