Did Anyone Else See This?
Several nights ago on a local TV station in Greenville, SC the news anchor was discussing a new technology which added Hydrogen to one's gasoline via some type of electronic converter which used baking soda and water to produce the chemical recation. the hydrogen was injected into the gas mixture through the fuel injectors. They said the the "initial results looked like mileage WAS being increased and that they would do a follow up story after using the apparatus for a full week.' My travel schedule prcluded me seeing the conclusion. Did anyone else either see this or do they know anything about it? One supposedly can purchase the "plans" for the device via mail order and then build it yourself from "readily available parts."
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Permalink Reply by Michael on -
Apparently you and Mike are too lazy to do a little Internet reseach - you want a "scientific" professional to do it for you. You have been give lots of testimonies from others on these forums. Time for the scales to come off.
What do you think of these FAQ's and the complete systems offered?
http://thermo1.com/faq.htm
Still think it is not a viable way to increase MPG?
Alternator issues? Get a permanent magnet DC alternator.
I suppose you guys would have discredited N. Telsa in his day.
Add a solution instead of a critique. That is what this site is all about.
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Permalink Reply by Dooner Horton on -
Apparently you didn't read my original post. What I WANTED to know is whether anyone saw the results of the Greenville Tech experiment. I wanted to know what THEY reported.
As for your flippant retort regarding "alternator issues," go out and start your car, let it idle and open the hood and, turn on the headlights and tell me what happens. The engine lugs a bit because the energy required for the alternator to power the lights drags it down, and it uses more gasoline to provide the energy for the lights. (There IS no perpetual motion machine.)
Next, your posting of a commercial website from "Thermol.com" is just THAT. . . a commercial. If every commercial told the truth I'd have sacks full of money from my envelope stuffing business, a head full of hair, gorgeous women flocking around my pheronome soaked body and a perpetually erect 14" hooter with which to satisfy them all.
YOU, on the other hand are guilty of the very thing you accused Mike and me of, offering a "cutesy critique" instead of a "solution" or even a cogent argument for that matter. Tell ya' what, YOU buy the stuff from "Thermol.com" and let us know how it works for you.
PS- As far as "discrediting Tesla" I DO have a few problems with his levitation, UFO and time travel theories."
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Permalink Reply by Michael on
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Hi Donner,
Apparently you didn't read my original post. What I WANTED to know is whether anyone saw the results of the Greenville Tech experiment. I wanted to know what THEY reported.
Hold on cowboy, I wasn't responding to you about a TV program you saw 2000 miles from me. Nothing in my post was addressing you. Comments were for Mike & David.
As for your flippant retort regarding "alternator issues," go out and start your car, let it idle and open the hood and, turn on the headlights and tell me what happens. The engine lugs a bit because the energy required for the alternator to power the lights drags it down, and it uses more gasoline to provide the energy for the lights. (There IS no perpetual motion machine.)
That is a cogent comment David! A car's fan does not drop the RPM, it is the compressor. On perpetual motion - overunity:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDeXTXYFKAY&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFGiWiXMHn0&feature=related self-starting overunity.
Hope that sheds some light on perpetual motion.
Please don't hammer me if you don't like what you see in the videos, contact the respective company.
Next, your posting of a commercial website from "Thermol.com" is just THAT. . . a commercial...
That wasn't for you. I don't endorse any system. I offered David & Mike a chance to read something from someone who is involved in a lot more than HHO generators. Did you read the FAQ's before blasting away here? Yes, you can purchase plans and complete systems. Go to ebay and search hho generator.
YOU, on the other hand are guilty of the very thing you accused Mike and me of, offering a "cutesy critique" instead of a "solution" or even a cogent argument for that matter. Tell ya' what, YOU buy the stuff from "Thermol.com" and let us know how it works for you.
There is criticism and constructive criticism. I consider David and Mike's comments as uninformed criticism, they did not offer anything constructive in their comments. I offered third party FAQ's and magnetic DC alternator as solutions for them. HHO generators do work.
PS- As far as "discrediting Tesla" I DO have a few problems with his levitation, UFO and time travel theories."
I guess time will tell. :)
Try following the treads a little closer and and tone it down some. Thanks!
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Permalink Reply by David French on -
"Apparently you and Mike are too lazy to do a little Internet reseach"
No, not too lazy. Again, as I said, I want something scientific, not some people selling it offering up their FAQ. That means NOTHING.
"Still think it is not a viable way to increase MPG?"
Correct. I still think it's not a viable way to increase MPG. Any additional drag on an alternator will cause a mileage decrease, as it causes more drag on the engine to power it. Go drive a small car with the A/C off, then turn it on. You can FEEL the drag on the engine, and that takes less power than this supposed magic "cracking" of the hydrogen from water. The A/C will cause a decrease in MPG. This device will draw more energy from the alternator than it creates.
"I suppose you guys would have discredited N. Telsa in his day."
is that what they tell you to retort with when someone questions the science? You're nowhere near the first to offer up that complete non-sequitur.
"Add a solution instead of a critique. That is what this site is all about."
This site is about the Pickens Plan, not some nutty "water gas" ripoff.
I will say it AGAIN. I would like to see a controlled, scientific study done by a major university (Greenville Tech is not one), where a control vehicle is run on a dynamometer under controlled conditions. Let's see some real results, otherwise, I maintain that it's yet another scam, meant to prey on the scientifically clueless.
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Permalink Reply by Michael on
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David,
You wrote, "I still think it's not a viable way to increase MPG. Any additional drag on an alternator will cause a mileage decrease, as it causes more drag on the engine to power it. Go drive a small car with the A/C off, then turn it on. You can FEEL the drag on the engine, and that takes less power than this supposed magic "cracking" of the hydrogen from water. The A/C will cause a decrease in MPG. This device will draw more energy from the alternator than it creates."
Have to dispute you here. The fan running draws from the alternator, the a/c compressor running on a small engine causes the drag you feel.
Your credibility just went up in smoke!!
Did you take advantage of the Contact Us link on the Thermo1 site? I don't make HHO generators for sale, and I don't make science a religion.
I know I wouldn't come to your engineering firm to hire you to design a way to make hydrogen gas run in an engine - proof - you ignored the tip the about alternator draw by installing a permanent magnetic DC alternator. Instead you keep hammering away about drag on the factory alternator. There is a solution for you. But even a DC alternator won't stop the drag you feel.
I know HHO generators work and they save more gas than the drain on the engine to run the alternator.
Tell me what energy source was used for automobiles prior to petroleum.
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Permalink Reply by David French on
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"Your credibility just went up in smoke!!"
Dude...whatever. I am not here to establish credibility. I am a skeptic of these completely nutty water-gas scams. I don't look to be credible, I am not an expert on them.
"I know I wouldn't come to your engineering firm to hire you to design a way to make hydrogen gas run in an engine "
Good. I'm not that kind of engineer, I don't do that type of thing, and if I did, I wouldn't want a bunch of nutty conspiracy theorists as clients anyway.
"I know HHO generators work and they save more gas than the drain on the engine to run the alternator."
How do you know they work? Anyone who understand engineering is looking at you like you're an idiot. I would suggest investigating the laws of thermodynamics.
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Permalink Reply by Michael on
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David,
Here's the answer for your underpowered car that when the A/C comes on you feel the drag.
http://www.intergalactichydrogen.com/
Isn't that Arnold in one of the links?
BTW, HHO generators do not violate "The Law." The cell requires energy to make the gas. "FREE" water can be found in a pond, melted ice, from rain, spring, etc. Water from your house is most likely metered. Well water requires electricity (unless you use solar or wind). Please find a revelant argument.
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Permalink Reply by William Swezey on -
The units that break water into Hydrogen and Oxygen can be obtained already assembled for a couple of hundred dollars and then it needs to be installed on your car. If you are interested in saving gas and worried about the future cost of gas ( i.e. $8.00 a gallon next year) then why not check your gas mileage for a couple of tankfulls, then install a unit on your car and check your mileage again for a couple of tankfulls. Then you will know for sure whether it works or not. If you are waiting for dyno tests, controlled conditions, EPA reports, etc you will probably be waiting forever. We all know the oil companies have a lot of influence on a lot of aspects of our society. It is NOT in their best interest to let individuals do things that will increase their mileage 25 - 50%. If it is inexpensive, simple to do and works they won't be able to stop it. All they can do is get the word out that it "may void your warranty" and try to scare people into NOT taking action. There are several places on the web where individuals are reporting up to 50% increase in gas mileage by burning HHO that is generated as the car needs it. Probably not enough at highway speeds to make a major differance. At slow speeds or stop-an-go driving a significant differance is possible. I plan to put a system on my 2000 Bonneville to see what differance there is.
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Permalink Reply by David French on
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Here is a simple request.
Why won't one of these "legitimate" firms selling these things hire an engineering school to do real, certifiable tests on these units? It's always "buy one and install it, and you see what works". I'm not going to buy something with nothing more than word-of-mouth "evidence".
These companies selling these units can hire a legitimate testing firm, or pay for a university to do it, and it doesn't require the involvement of the government or the oil companies. These things have ALWAYS been sold with that conspiracy theory angle, both now and in the 1970s, that the government and the oil companies don't want them.
You folks can ramble all you like, but while I'm no expert on this process, I am an engineer, and have enough knowledge to understand the laws of thermodynamics.
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Permalink Reply by Michael on
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David,
Let the rooster come home to roost.
Why won't one of these "legitimate" firms selling these things hire an engineering school to do real, certifiable tests on these units? It's always "buy one and install it, and you see what works". I'm not going to buy something with nothing more than word-of-mouth "evidence".
Why don't you hire a "legitimate" university to prove it doesn't work? Why don't you become an expert on this process? It's a relatively small investment for you to "buy one and install it, and you see what works". With your education you might develop a patentable system, much like the patent being applied for by Thermo1 for an HHO generator. If they get a patent, is that enough "proof" by a governing body for you that there is a gas savings?
What was the energy used for automobiles prior to petroleum?
Have a great week!
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Permalink Reply by David French on
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Oh, so I have to spend MY money to disprove it? Why?
I'd rather see these folks try to make one million dollars by proving it. Funny that nobody has proven it yet, based on real, verifiable, scientific testing.
"If they get a patent, is that enough "proof" by a governing body for you that there is a gas savings?"
Nope. Getting a patent does not require that the theory be proven. They are patenting the process.
"What was the energy used for automobiles prior to petroleum?"
Don't know, don't care...and don't see the relevance. Instead of pretending to be The Riddler, why not tell us what you think the relevance is. I've not doubted that hydrogen can be a fuel. I've not doubted that Brown's Gas has energy. What I have said is that getting that product requires more energy than what is obtained.
Here is a great place to go spin your wheels on this miracle invention.
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Permalink Reply by Michael on
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David, this Disani's for you!
Taking HHO to the next level!
I know you probably don't speak the language, but in this case "a video is worth 1000 words!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1OWDcWoXHs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxfMz2eDME&feature=related
Somehow I believe ENGINEERS designed and developed these cars, not just a guy working away in his garage like in the USA. Hey, Microsoft came out of a garage! Unfortunately, Bill did not graduate as an engineer.
en·gi·neer
–noun
1. a person trained and skilled in the design, construction, and use of engines or machines, or in any of various branches of engineering: a mechanical engineer; a civil engineer.
2. a person who operates or is in charge of an engine.
Hey, that's me driving my HHO powered vehicle!!
3. Also called locomotive engineer. Railroads. a person who operates or is in charge of a locomotive.
4. a member of an army, navy, or air force specially trained in engineering work.
5. a skillful manager: a political engineer.
6. to plan, construct, or manage as an engineer: He's engineered several big industrial projects.
7. to design or create using the techniques or methods of engineering: The motor has been engineered to run noiselessly.
8. to arrange, manage, or carry through by skillful or artful contrivance: He certainly engineered the election campaign beautifully.
'Holy engineer!', Stanley Meyer had a patent! 4936961
http://www.h2earth.org/main.htm
It expired in July on 2007. The info is now in the public domain, for Americans - and a few Japanese - to replicate today. Found this under External Links.
http://waterfuel.100free.com/
Apparently some "science" is "junk."
http://www.junkscience.com/
I read the Aardvark blog. Not lazy here, since you won't research it, the energy used before petroleum - was hydrogen (1920).
Brown's Gas increases MPG in diesel, gas, ethanol and bio-fuel by more than the energy it uses. Interesting that you won't comment on using a permanent magnetic DC generator to power the HHO cell?
If you have problems with websites above, contact them. I am not in the business of defending them. I report, you decide.
I love engineers!!
It's been fun bantering with you. I don't want you to get any more bumps on your forehead by banging it on the same old door. :)
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