What do real people really want from solar?

Request: Would someone not in the industry please describe their *ideal* solar powered solution for the home or for their business.

Please describe something you would *really* purchase. And please understand that the folks who will make and install the system have lives & homes & kids in college too.

Tags: expectation, practical, purchase

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Paul on August 13, 2008 at 8:52am: Hi Auntie,

It's a nice site, but it reminds me of a lecture by a professor that's a cross between the Donald Sutherland character in Animal House and the Ben Stein character in Ferris Bueller.

I love the heat! :^) I knew you'd understand...; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Gregory L. Smith on August 2, 2008 at 1:15am: True. Current upfront costs are about $1 a watt if you buy from a retail dealer, but the real costs are in the full term outlay of funds. That $1 per watt equals only the first time expense. After that first payment, the cost is almost $0. Also, for that $1 per watt, you get that watt over and over again. If you buy the coal or gas or hydrogen or any other fuel, you are paying for the fuel over and over again, so the cost per watt is really more, since you are paying for the watt over and over again, with usage the only return. It is rental vs purchase. Measure oranges with oranges and the costs are already close to parity with clean burning coal and definitely far less than nuclear energy. Just last year the USA paid $1 Billion for deaths and injuries to nuclear workers. That will continue no doubt. If you built 45 more, you increase that debt level accordingly. Solar cells will improve this year to about 50% efficiency, based on current research and results from CAL Berkeley. It will lower costs per watt also.
Gregor Smith gregors@att.net
See the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, dated September/October 2007. The charts on page 43 are clearly inaccurate and this is common nationally.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by William Bowling on August 3, 2008 at 7:41am: Maybe if it was inexpensive as a new bedroom set or washer and dryer, I would have had it already.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Paul on August 5, 2008 at 10:29am: Hi Bill,

OK, sure, but what you spend on 'laundry' includes the machines, electricity, soap, softener, and even a portion of the wear & tear on the clothing.

My point is that a 'laundry set' is a 'consumable cost' whereas a solar system is a 'production investment'. You gotta be prepared to spend a little more.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Max H Herr on August 5, 2008 at 6:25pm: Absolutely right, Paul! At this point in time, when the technology is still in its relative infancy, those of us who go outside the box and install PV solar, solar-thermal, wind turbine, or collect used cooking oil from the local Chinese All-You-Can-Eat Buffet and filter it for use in a diesel engine, know that the capital outlay is more now than it will eventually be when the technology matures.

But we do so knowing that we're being socially and environmentally responsible, which is the greater good at the present. And without our "investment" today, the technology might never mature. (Same as for the difficulty you're encountering in the promotion of solar-thermal . . . not enough PR to get on too many radar screens. Keep plugging away at it!)

As I remodeled my home, purposely changing the entire roof structure to provide a south facing surface, I also purposely changed nearly 100% of the interior and exterior lighting to LED-based products. Not inexpensive, by far, but the right thing to do today, as my part of reducing the demand for foreign energy sources. (But almost all of my LED products are manufactured in China simply because there are practically no companies manufacturing the stuff here!)

Sure, I could have chosen to wait 5 or 6 years when the cost would be lower. But that's a cop out. You're either going to jump in and get wet, or you're going to stick your little toe in and test the water. I prefer the former.

I could have waited 20 years to buy my first computer, too, instead of spending $1,000 in 1986 for my 8088 "Turbo" 12 MHz IBM-PC "clone" with its 640K RAM, 10 Mb hard drive, 5-1/4" floppy drive, and 12" VGA monochrome monitor, and one each serial and parallel ports (what? no modem?) -- a true dinosaur by today's standards (I wish I still had it, it would be a collector's item today!). But it served me well for over four years, allowing me to write my master's thesis and go on to becoming proficient at desktop publishing and several other useful, money-making ventures.

I paid less than $600 in January this year for the Toshiba laptop I'm using to write this comment, with its 2.2 Ghz Athlon processor, 2Gb RAM, 200 Gb hard drive, 17" WXGA display, and wireless connectivity (not to mention 4 USB and 1 Firewire port). Who would have known? In 1986, a 1 Gb hard drive was $900, but you couldn't even access all 1 Gb -- you would have had to partition it into 50 20 Mb drives, because that's all state-of-the-art DOS 3.4 could "see". Today, you can buy a couple of 750 Gb drives for less than $200, and they're "plug-and-play".

But the net result would have been me being way behind the curve as a PC user, instead of being a person others come to for advice and help.

We're either part of the solution, part of the problem, or just in the way of both. I prefer to be a part of the solution, regardless of the cost. Which are you, William?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Dave baragona on October 27, 2008 at 11:07am: "At this point in time, when the technology is still in its relative infancy, those of us who go outside the box and install PV solar, solar-thermal, wind turbine, or collect used cooking oil from the local Chinese All-You-Can-Eat Buffet and filter it for use in a diesel engine, know that the capital outlay is more now than it will eventually be when the technology matures."

We could spend a lifetime waiting for this new technology to mature. Meanwhile the problems with foreign oil dependence, pollution and global warming grow worse every day. Every day we wait, is a day we don't solve these problems

As far as the cost......Tax incentives and rebates help to offset the higher cost of PV systems today, making them as cost effective as these new technologies when they mature (if ever).

This is not a time to wait. This is a time to act....; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Ward on July 23, 2008 at 8:37pm: If you live in Cal. or AZ and want a solar system for no money down and a low lease fee per month that is usually less that the money you save on your electric bill check this out:
www.SolarCity.com; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Max H Herr on July 24, 2008 at 3:46am

Sorry, Paul . . . I just joined this forum a couple of hours ago. But even so, some of us are busy in the middle of the day doing things like managing a construction project that includes the installation of a PV solar system. In fact, I've added a few photos of my home on July 15 as my soon-to-be-grid-tied 3.3 KW array (18 ea Sunpower 215 W panels) was in the last stages of installation.

I don't know why you would exclude from the discussion the available "rebates, incentives, grants and programs, etc." all of which are intended to influence and assist folks to invest in the systems. After all, if you pay income taxes, I'm sure you either take the standard deduction or itemize your deductions in order to reduce your tax liability, don't you?

You want to know why someone like myself (an insurance agent and part-time university professor -- a non-energy industry insider) would do such a thing. Well, here are some of the best reasons I can think of as they apply to my wife and me, and our after-rebates and incentives $25,000 PV solar system. We made a decision that our present home would be our last home, and we chose to remodel it to meet our current and future needs (total cost, including the solar system, about $300,000). (1) based on our average 2006 energy usage, it will provide 85%-100% of our annual electricity demand (perhaps more, given the energy-efficiencies I've designed into our home remodeling project), (2) given the current and projected future cost of electricity, the payback on the system should only take 7-10 years, (3) the system is warranteed for 25 years, so that means at least 15 years of expected trouble-free PV solar electricity beyond payback, and (4) it is the environmentally-, socially-, financially-, and energy self-sufficiency- correct thing to do.

If, as I expect will be true in 5-7 years, Southern California Edison is eventually required to BUY my excess generated electricity, I will probably add additional solar panels to my rooftop (you'll see in the photos that I have plenty of additional space on the south-facing surface I had to build specifically for the solar panels) and earn money on my investment, eventually recovering the entire system cost and go on to generate a profit in addition to electricity.

So, now that I've told you what you wanted to know, Paul, tell us what you're doing to be an environmentally-, socially-, financially-, and energy self-sufficiency-conscious citizen of Planet Earth.

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Permalink Reply by Paul on July 24, 2008 at 7:29am: Hi Max,

I'm only asking folks to ignore the consideration of incentives for the moment, because they vary so much from state to state and complicate the issue. The amount a person would be *willing* pay is going to be what it is! Either cost less incentives will reach that price point and the person will buy, or not.

The Light is Green!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Edward Frantz on July 24, 2008 at 10:29am: My average electric bill is $200.00 per month. When my cost for a solar system on my house is $200.00 a month, I will buy one. The bonus is that it will get paid off at some time in the future and I will then get free electricity. Hopefully enough to power my electric car.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Paul on July 24, 2008 at 10:57am: Hi Edward,

Great answer! Direct and to the point... How long would you go before the system is paid for?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by James R Kirst on July 21, 2008 at 11:27am: For starters I think all houses should be set up to handle Solar electric for there own use as well set to easily equip your self to fed the grid for credit as an option.
Builders should be pushing for solar roofs , panels Design roofs to the correct over hang toallow winter sun and block summer sun recommend floor type thar are energy retainers ie ie .
Builders should be pushing the goverment for grant discounts ie ie to help get the houseing industry moving towards this type of building.
Why not build a solar plant for your development to eliminate the utility altogether if 10 acreas can handle 1000 homes I asume a smaller area would support a smaller development

rgds jim kirst; ▶ Reply to This