Converting Current vechicles to natural gas.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Dave on -
Maybe all we need to do is convert the Super rich and their government into jails for run a way greed as Treason ! This was a good place to live years ago when doctors made house calls and heating your home over 65 degrees did not cost a years income . In France doctors still make house calls and their billing for health care dose not bankrupt people . The fuel problem is realy a greed problem and the sooner you all want to fix that issue the sooner things will get better . When Cars and trucks all run on CNG, NG or what ever, the Greed people will run that price through the roof to . So you will still be screwed ! My 3/4 ton truck just sits and rust most of the time and I ride a small DP motorcycle all the time ,if their is no ice on the road that is . By rights running a truck that is not transporting a 1/2 ton of goods should get the mileage of a car ,its light when MT !
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Permalink Reply by Sean O'Donnell on -
I have written Boone e-mails for almost a year now asking for his input on natual gas conversion of my vehicle. To date he has not seen fit to either reply or talk on the subject. I can only assume he is not interested in our needs to help reduce the oil inports by converting to natuarl gas. Maybe this whole Army thing is just another way to push his business venture and make more billions. Then again maybe I'm wrong, but to my way of thinking as the leader of this movement, he should be able to provide us all with the tools we need. i.e. sources for conversion, costs, links to people who have converted to NG., etc. I should add that this goes for electric conversion as well.
Myself, I have been looking here in Minnesota and have only found one dealer for conversions. He has stated that the biggest hold up on doing conversion is the EPA because the require the dealer to spend approximately 100,000 dollars for "every engine type, size or model" they want to convert. Needless to say, they are no in any hurry to do conversions.
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Permalink Reply by neil cox on -
A few of the rich people are greedy and/or unethical. But most are more honorable than average poor and middle class. Typically the rich are more skillful at covering their misdeeds than poor folks. It would be a big error to convict rich people on less compelling evidence than we do poor and middle class, as USA cannot recover from the current recession without the help of rich people.
Most conspiracies are wrong or exaggerated, but it does appear that various government agencies are impeding the conversion to CNG = compressed natural gas, and plug in electric vehicles. Apparently President Obama could, but has not, ordered a relaxation of rules. This is partly because government employees and union members tend to be spiteful when micro managed. How much risk of dangerous CNG vehicles are you willing to accept? Will you sue if an unlikely CNG disaster strikes your life? Neil
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Permalink Reply by DubleDeuce on -
<<Maybe this whole Army thing is just another way to push his business venture and make more billions.>>
Well, DUH! After a years' educatin', this ole boy is startin' to show some promise in the noodle soup department.
The Deuceman
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Permalink Reply by DubleDeuce on
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<<How much risk of dangerous CNG vehicles are you willing to accept? Will you sue if an unlikely CNG disaster strikes your life>>
Any time you place a combustible gas into a small space and under great pressure, you are automatically raising the odds of an accident. That is not the issue. To be born alive is to automatically take on the risk of death. One goes hand in hand with the other.
The ISSUE is not the occasional 'stacking' of the elements of failure until all of a sudden the cosmic stars of disaster are aligned and BOOM!, your dead. The issue is merely one of competence. A properly modified vehicle, adhering to all of the rules found in publication NFP 30 will render the vehicle safe for driving and safe to be driven among the population.
The only problem is that adherence to these rules requires some pricy components and processes to be incorporated into the design and modification of the vehicle systems.
Add to that the requirement of EPA certification by engine year and family and the price to convert one vehicle can easily climb to 12-15K dollars.
I do NOT condone the back alley modification of ANY vehicle. This is NOT in the best interest of the community. I DO subscribe to the application of the rules as promulgated in NFP pamphlet #30. This leaves us in a quandary, but NOT one that is irresolvable.
T B Pickens is NOT the White Knight for this project. This is the domain of the capitalist. Big bucks in search of big profits. But I DO find T Boone Pickens absence in the after market conversion arena disgraceful. His money has been placed into those enterprises that he deems worthy of his investment but there are no (save for this web site) investments (monetary or otherwise) that show that he is REALLY interested in anything but a quick profit.
He did an interview with Playboy magazine (I ONLY GET THE MAGAZINE FOR THE ARTICLES) recently where he was asked if he had ventured into any other forms of alternative energy. his response? "Well, yeah, I did dabble in the business of wind turbines for a few years but I was never too enthusiastic about the business". He is high on coal only because it is here and it is doable. He dislikes ethanol for all of the right reasons, and electric cars in his mind are an economic bust "once you turn on the A/C you lose 20 mpg"
As he states quite unequivocally, he is an oil man. It is all he knows. So, with all of that information, here is my take on the guy. He drills for oil. Like all drillers, he strikes 'something' about once in two times at bat. The 'something' turns out about 35% of the time to be water, sour gas, or a load of natural gas. This is an undesirable byproduct of the profession. You deal with it and move on. BUT!, his approach (god bless him for his insight) was to try to goad the US into buying a product that he had a bunch of (capped wells are legendary in the Midwest and the Rocky's-but not for reasons of conspiracy, rather for reasons of profitability in getting the gas from the unimproved well heads to market) natural gas. While it is certainly a clean product, and it is plentiful in the short to medium run (say 20-25 years) and can certainly be a factor in the competitiveness of crude oil, the country has been smacked upside the head by the introduction of this product with the uncommonly high price for each citizen to get into the game.
He has served NO ONE well, nor this country well by attempting to do a 'Bama scam" on us and make us think there is a catastrophic crisis awaiting us with high crude oil prices. Folks, just wait, 40 dollar a barrel oil will be available soon. That is NOT some wishful thinking, but simple a reflection of the market forces at work. Bama.com and company can do NOTHING about it. the world is currently awash in crude oil. The only thing holding the price up now is the speculators (yep, there still with us) thinking that they can cash in on the next upswing in the marketplace.
I got some SAD news for all of you. It ain't gonna happen. At least not for another 5 years. The speculator and the derivative hustler has killed the goose that lays the golden egg. I have spoken about this before. Do a forum search on the highlighted words.
In the meantime the mortgages will come due on those giant Mid Eastern Hotels and exclusive getaways and the Sheik's and Crown Princes in charge will of necessity, open the spigots of the black gold to get needed revenue. Now, if you think I’m blowin’ in the wind, just look here
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/12/05/60minutes/main4650223.shtml
We ain't out of oil folks. We are out of sync with the market forces. We need to have an alternatitive to foreign crude, if ONLY to prevent the sudden and rapacious act of oil spiking. With an alternative fuel readily available to the American consumer we as the "largest consumer of crude oil in the world" could DICTATE the price of crude to every tin horned dictator in the world. Natural gas could do that.
THAT is a National plan of action.
The Deuceman
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Permalink Reply by neil cox on
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I'm glad to hear that oil prices will remain low for 5 more years. I'm fearful that means 5 more years of the world wide recession. A roaring world ecconomy could easily increase oil demand by 20%, which may be more than can be produced. That does seem to indicate that conversion to natural gas will be very costly and save little or no money until the 6th year.
If we do few conversions until 2013, we can only do twice a few in the 6th year, so USA won't get to dictate oil prices. We can likely double the number of CNG conversions, new wind turbines, or solar panels each year, but more than double is unlikely as factories need to be built, and royalties negotiated. Is there any chance that Congress could dictate that each applicable patent holder gets one dollar per CNG vehicle, to bypass the usual costly and time consuming negotiations? Of course there is a slight possibility that the Deuceman is wrong. Perhaps Deuseman will explain the term Bama scam?
If turning on the air conditioning reduces the miles per gallon of hybrid cars by 20 miles per gallon, then we better move to plug in hybrids and all electric quickly. Why would gasoline cars loose only 3 miles per gallon instead of 20? 20 is serious exaggeration is my guess. What does Deuceman think of oil, etc from algae in transparent pipes? Neil
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Permalink Reply by Bill Bullock on -
Another reality check here folks: We are not out of oil. We are out of LIGHT oil … the kind that makes a lot of gasoline/Diesel per barrel. We are now in a heavy crude phase. Heavy crude is termed 20 deg.. API gravity or less with the lower the number the more viscous the production, and the heavier the oil the less desirable the product.
To make the fuels everyone requires from this material requires a lot more steps in the refining process and every step costs additional money. There are no “waste” products in the production/refining process. Most require the production of free Hydrogen to be used in the process. This Hydrogen is secured from Natural Gas that is produced either along with the crude or from natural gas wells. Canada has used so much of their once-plentiful reserves of NG in their “oil tar sands” upgraders that they have been forced to import more from foreign countries.
The price of oil has once again “bottomed out” and will resume increasing in price during the recovery period. It makes no difference if this is driven by demand or speculation. If the price goes up it goes up and that is what one must pay in order to continue to play the game. We cannot “dictate” the world value of crude. China is ahead of us in the recovery process. If they will pay the producers $1.00 more per barrel than we offer which would you bet on getting the oil. Please remember that we need 25,000,000 barrels A DAY just to maintain.
We have a short period of “breathing room” available to try to institute an alternative to the inevitable. Sit on our collective asses and we will not survive in our previous position.
And as for Boone being in this for the money, so what! I do not see anyone else trying to do anything and if he were not concerned he could sit on his assets and die a very rich man under very comfortable circumstances. Where are the alternatives to replace what Boone is offering or what he is doing? So far I do not see any.
Bill Bullock
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Permalink Reply by Robert Mann on -
My newest CNG BI-Fuel Conversion a 2001 VM Jetta 1.8 4 CYL TURBO
My newest CNG BI-Fuel Conversion a 2001 VM Jetta 1.8 4 CYL TURBO My Beetle CNG-Fuel
Hello out there I have post before of my 1999 Beetle that runs on Compressed Natural Gas and Gasoline I have spent a few years on just doing VW to run on the New NGAS.
I have a site with a lot of information www.CNGvw.com . But this 2002 Jetta 1.8 turbo
As far as I can tell it is the only one in the USA.
I must say it run Great and the MPG is in the high 30’s and it looks like I will push the 40s.I had a very hard time with getting the setup to work right .The kit is from Italy the install was very straight forward.
The support was none. And placing the injectors were they said never worked right.
I spent weeks on that set up never got it right.
I had to ask my older brother to help me at this point hated that. My brother and I have been in the racing world for 35 years plus and yes we are couple of old guys.
We designed a fogger system for the car with adjustable injector ports and in a day we had it running sweet.
At 130 octant and filling at home at 60 cents a Gal I think this the way for us to go.
I did show it at the http://www.altwheels.org/index.html and had a lot of interests did make the NEWS.
The TURBO Jetta with the CNG BI-FUEL kit and my invention CNG Fogger is such
a joy to drive. So I drive two CNG cars but by far the Turbo takes your breath away.
I have gotten 179 miles to the CNG tank with 5.1 GAL in it that is driving it hard in
City and hi way mix.
But some thing that I have not do in a long time is bring it up to a very hi speed. There is a place on the way to Cape Cod RT 25 just before the bridge six miles of open road.
I laid into it the Turbo kicked in the CNG flowed and next thing I owned the 122 MPH
marker with a half a throttle petal to go.
So the next time some says CNG cars are slow send them this way.
Bob Mann
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