Hydrogen Power
Why can't we bring together 4 or 5 Billionaires to form a consorsium to develope affordable hydrogen power for cars and homes and businesses. Hydrogen power is developed but not economically. If the government offers this consorsium exclusive rights to produce the affordable hydrogen engine for cars and hydrogen power for homes and business for approx. 5 years (exclusive rights), which would be a great incentive to solve the problem.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Kathryn Bryant on -
...which is why natural gas is such a great solution...it requires absolutely no refining and can be piped directly to your house.
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Permalink Reply by Michael W Bond on -
A secondary thought. In NW Pennsylvania we are expecting a 30-50% increase in natural gas and distribution cost. My current monthly heating bill will rise from $200.00 per month to $300.00 per month and we keep the thermostat at 65 degrees in the winter. What I am saying is natural gas is "loosly" tied to the crude oil industry and if these rates shift from one form and cost sharing to another what is going to cost drivers in the long run. Remember there are no guarantees and no tooth fairies. Just a thought!
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Permalink Reply by John Jackson on -
Frank,
Actually the issue of electric cars is charging time. It is not more efficient to use ele only when you have to stop on a road trip and charge up your car for 3.5 hours. Hydrogen you stop and fuel up just like gas and are on your way. When using renewable energy to produce hydrogen it is very efficient. The current myth that hydrogen is "most efficiently" produced with NG is due to oil company involvement in the process. Check out who is building current hydrogen fueling stations (Shell, BP, Etc). To your comment of "mine it freely" when using renewable power in essence it is with only the cost of water and equipment maintenance. It can be done and it SHOULD.
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Permalink Reply by Maurice Boudreau on -
Frank what is preventing us from having electric cars that generate their own electricity as they expend it? I don't have enough knowledge about the subject, but it seems to follow if the vehicle is a moving object then how can we capture that motion to keep regenerating the electricity to power to expand the distance of the vehicle?
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Permalink Reply by John Jackson on
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Sparrow. Check out my solution at http://newghas.com. Also MySpace under newghas has a video about the Honda FCX. I hav eseen several posts from you and you seem to use great common sense in your remarks. My group is Renewable Energy Produced Hydrogen Fuel if you want to join.
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Permalink Reply by Daryl Oster on -
Frank,
You are absolutely correct, it is far better to use the electrical energy directly to propel transportation vehicles.
And David is also correct, there is always waste in energy conversion; and i might add there is also waste in transmitting electricity through power lines to power electric trains of buses.
Efficiency has many measures, and can be very confusing when only part of the energy cycles efficiency is accounted for. The main measures to be concerned with are: how many passenger*miles of transportation can you get with a given amount of energy? How fast is that transportation method? What are the costs?
Evacuated Tube Transport (ETT)
A patented technology where travel occurs without air friction or rolling resistance (like “Space Travel on Earth”); ETT can accomplish 50 times more transportation per kWh than electric cars or trains. ETT is silent, low cost, safe, faster than jets, and is electric.
Air is permanently removed from 2 tubes along a travel route (two-way). Pressurized car sized passenger capsules travel in the tubes on frictionless maglev. Airlocks at stations allow transfer without admitting air. Linear electric motors accelerate the capsules, then they coast through the vacuum most of the trip using no power. Energy is recovered when they stop.
Speed in initial ETT systems is 350 mph for in state trips, and will be developed to 4,000 mph for international travel that will take you from NYC to Beijing in 2 hours at a tenth the cost of airfare. ETT is networked as are freeways. ETT capsules (hauling up to 6 people or 3 pallets of cargo) are automatically routed non-stop between “off-line” stations that are disbursed according to demand, so ETT has potential to eventually serve homes.
ETT capsules weigh only 400 lbs, yet like a SUV, haul 800lbs of people or cargo. A twentieth as much guideway material is required to support ETT capsules than to support locomotives. Material savings, and use of automated pipeline production, drops cost to less than a tenth the cost of High Speed Rail, or a fourth the cost of a freeway. With automated passive switching, a single 350mph ETT tube can exceed 16 lanes freeway capacity, further economizing.
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Permalink Reply by Ken Goss on -
John,
If (and I emphasise IF) hydrogen is a resonably effective medium for storage and transportation of energy that is harvested from the sun & wind, than I would think that a national hydrogen pipe line system would be in order. However, whether it is hydrogen or CNG or any of a number of other possibilities, we have a chicken or egg question. Is hydrogen fuel not widely available for homes and autos because people will not buy it, or do people not buy it because it is not widely available?
If the manufacture of hydrogen using energy from the sun & wind is a viable energy strategy, then I suspect it would take a government initiative to build a national hydrogen pipeline system to transport it from the areas where it is most economical to produce it to the areas where people want to use it. I don't think any rational investor will invest in a hydrogen system until the chicken or egg question is answered.
If the govt built a hydrogen pipeline system paralleling the interstate highway system, then we would have to develop producers and consumers for the hydrogen. For that, could you take a page from the farm subsidy policies that made us one of the largest agricultural producers in the world? If the govt guaranteed to buy hydrogen at a minimum price from anyone who produced it from solar & wind sources , and in turn offered to sell it to any consumer for a guaranteed maximum price, I am sure you could tinker with the prices to encourage producers on one end and consumers on the other end. How do you pay for the project? I am sure taxes would be involved, so how much are you willing to pay to have an alternative to fossil fuels widely available?
Ken Goss
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Permalink Reply by Kenneth Koch on -
Currently the most ecomical way to produce hydrogen is to extract it from NG. The hydrogen fueling stations in CA all use natural gas to produce hydrogen. Does any one now how Honda stores hydrogen in their veichle?
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Permalink Reply by John Jackson on
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Extracting from NG is not the most economical it is the "most efficient" according to the oil companies producing it. When using wind and solar power it may not produce as quickly but it is more economical. Check out our plan at http://newghas.com. Check out the video on MySPace under newghas for explanation on how the Honda FCX works and road test review from independent car review source.
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Permalink Reply by John Jackson on
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We can build the locations with no government support. Check out our plan at http://newghas.com. The solution is produce it on site with renewable energy (solar,wind). We need to keep the government out of as much of everything as possible. When we can reduce oil consumption from vehicles by 30 to 50% other things using fossil fuels will benefit from reduced demand.
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Permalink Reply by John Jackson on
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Check out our plan at http://newghas.com. We have a solution for hydrogen production using renewable energy on site at fueling locations.
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Permalink Reply by Seth Jones on -
The answer to that is simple many billionaires have money because they don't blow it. Something like that is an investment, and not many people want to invest in something so new to them, or at least they don't want to invest THAT much money into it. Really, the auto-makers are the ones to blame for hydrogen power not being more popular. If more auto makers would offer it, or a TRUE hydrogen kit came out, many more people would use hydrogen. Its plain and simple OIL IS MONEY. There is money in hydrogen, don't get me wrong, but you don't see as many hydrogen refill stations, because there aren't enough hydrogen cars. Toyota will be coming out with a couple of cars with solar panels attached in 2 years, but quite frankly solar power is not the way to go to power a vehicle. Electric maybe, solar supplement maybe, but not full solar. I like your idea though. Hydrogen power is a very god power source. If I were a billionaire, I would invest alot of money in it myself, and other alternative energy sources.
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