use water as fuel does it work??
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Smoley on -
Great information from one of the Bob Boyce sites: "Reports of overunity operation have not been document as of yet." This means that you can't power your car from the power of your car (or truck etc.). You can use external power to create the hydrogen oxygen mixture and run a car (or boat) completely on the gas produced, but you have to have an external source. This is directly from one of the founders of this technology.
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Permalink Reply by APC on -
It probaly should work fuel cell engines dont just run on hydrogen but also on oxygen it runs off a chemical reaction between H and O to make electricity and water vapor. The hydrogen you would pay for is just water which electrolysis used on it.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-cell.htm
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Permalink Reply by Phil Lawrence on -
Try logging on to www.KnowledgePublications.com. Roy McAllister and Steve Harris have a hydrogen powered car and a multi fuel engine. Books and DVDs galore. The by-product of burning hydrogen is water vapor. i encourage all to find out for themselves from this website. Also, check out www.FatherOMalley.com. There are many links on this issue as well as others.
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Permalink Reply by gary greenwell on -
Put your car on a dynamometer.
Add the volume of hydrogen and oxygen you can create with your system, without any power required by the engine to generate the HHO, from bottles of gas available locally.
Measure fuel consumption precisely
Run the engine without HHO and measure the power produced.
Measure fuel consumption precisely
Now connect your system and see what happens.
Measure fuel consumption precisely
A chassis dyno with precise fuel delivery measurements will tell you exactly which is better, under conditions of applied load that are identical. No room for error or assumptions.
Game set match, either it is better or worse, or the same.
Separating the generation energy requirements, from the benefit of additional hydrogen fuel and oxygen you are generating, makes it impossible to get data that would contain any flaws.
regards gary
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Permalink Reply by jerry Pursley on -
Ok .. hydrogen fuel will run vehicles ... check out Iceland's mass transit .
The problem being that of supply, with what I have done on HHO I have found it to be very difficult to regulate. For me it works well on carbuerated small engines that are set at a specific RPM for prolonged periods of time but it uses more electricity than I can provide to sustain operation with a small engine. The amount of electricity needed to make a generator produce HHO is a problem even with the alternators available for large trucks.
The options I have seen here in the US for HHO conversion is simply a joke ! The Hydrogen generators that are available today make big claims but are all using passive flow into the engine, no one has made an injection system that will work with a fuel injection. ( which is what all cars are today ) Passive HHO is aspirated through the air horn and pulled into the engine with the air flow creating a nightmare for the onboard computers .. some will work well initially until the computer figures out what is going on and compensates. Not to mention the problems created to the exhaust with the water emission.
We really need to look at this in an entirely different way. Retrofitting cars and trucks is probably more expensive and involved than anyone has applied. The HHO really needs to be injected directly into the engine under pressure timed to the intake stroke and the timing delayed to the spark and exhaust changed to something like stainless steel with a water drain to eliminate freezing during colder temperatures. YOU CAN'T JUST GENERATE HHO AND APPLY IT TO THE ASPIRATION SYSTEM AND EXPECT RESULTS !
We need a vehicle designed to generate HHO from the ground up .... I probably won't see a major manufacturing company accomplish this in my lifetime ... but fuel cells are a different matter ....
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Permalink Reply by Jack Warren on -
I don't know about water, but making hydrogen from water technology has been around for years. the oil companies have stopped any one devloping a working model. I have a working model on my small pick up that increases gas mileage by about 20%. There are many sites on the internet that show you how to make them or you can buy them. Just look under Hydrogen Generators.
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Permalink Reply by Dan Stark on -
For non believers.. Open your eyes.. goto http://lifeandstory.org/tv/index.php?type=0
and read all about it.. Or goto http://lifeandstory.org/tv/index.php?type=1
and see it being built. Youtube has many illustrations.. but I personally have built and experimented.. it is real! However hho (water and hydrogen may not be the best aLternative in various locations as it to can be a limited resource)
There is a better way......... READ ON
I have already realized the need to recreate the spark for retooling, re educating and creating a technology shift in the United States of America.
I have seen that even though the plan presented by Mr. Pickens is the right direction and good, it is driven by deep patriotism and of course personal profit... And there is nothing wrong with capitalism!
I wonder if we have all missed the biggest opportunity presented by this Pickens plan?..
There is an immediate and very profitable opportunity that has played over and over again in our own country.. one that generates jobs, excitement, competition and best of all communities. And yet, I don't see a word or any real action to create the REAL growth process or immediate accelerated opportunities associated with this plan.. Why?
If I had the capitol and or position to demonstrate the very principal being exposed here.. the very principal that builds wealth, control, communities and position in the global economy.. I would do it.. Why not own it all and have people grateful that you do?
How can that happen? Nothing new here.. It is by providing a service that benefits one and all.
I believe I have learned from the old folks and history in the community I hail from... a little city in Kansas that once was home to the most millionaires per capata in the United States.
Independence, KS 67301. By today’s standards, it is a shrinking (population 9000) somewhat non-important piece of the USA culture. Even though it has created movie stars, National talents, and entrepreneurs any one would recognize (Harry Sinclair). All caused by some basic ingredients, circumstances and timing.
We are in that place of timing and circumstance again.. And even though Mr. Pickens has done all the right things (God Bless Him) and has the keys and the resource, I am afraid Mr. Pickens cant see the real opportunity to generate every thing he is wishing for and even to put it in autopilot mode.
In the next few months GraceTime.com is going to expand and add a section that will explain this missed opportunity, detailing what the real opportunities are and how using Mr. Pickens plan in a little different way
Can be more than a catalyst for growth but a community builder!
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Permalink Reply by Danny Stark on
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If this technology is so un useful why are the Japanese poring a billions $ into to it? The only difference is they are approaching the hydrogen in a way that it can be regulated and taxed.. Whatever, It is real and it is here.
By the way, The Meyers method of converting water to HHO, is not the easy and fast (use a bunch of current to generate a little) It is rather a patented process of "resonating" (an electronic term for finding the wave length that excites a given object). When the resonating process is used it takes 1/4 to 1/2 amp to generate huge amounts of HHO. The US patent office has confirmed this process as there is a patent. Wonder why we are not seeing any of the dead Meyers work?
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Permalink Reply by Joe Jefferis on -
Danny,
Check out my postings about Stanley Meyer and his patents in another PickensPlan forum chain:Watered Powered Car. It is interesting to note that I posted the information about the PUBLIC DOMAIN Stanley Meyer patent information on July 8 and oil prices peaked on July 11 and then dropped quickly - the cat was out of the bag.
The US DOE expressed interest in the Stanley Meyer patents in 2006, but I am not aware of any development or study by the DOE. It seems that the US financial system and politicians were completely vested interest in high oil prices. I don't believe the sub-prime mortgages were the cause for the banking crisis. Sub-prime mortgages (CDOs, MBS, etc) were definitely part of the problem, but it was not until after oil prices dropped did the President come out and talk about the banking meltdown.
My theory is that AIG, Citibank, BoA, and the financial system in general were holding derivatives and making astronomical bets that oil prices would be flat or continue to rise, forever. When oil's speculative bubble burst, the derivative losses were exponentially aggrevated by the steep and rapid drop, causing the current crisis within 90 days from my Stanley Meyer patents posting.
Since no one else takes credit for popping the bubble, I credit the PickensPlan Army and my public disclosures about how my former employer, a global aerospave company, attempted to silence me about the Stanley Meyer patents. No one has come out and made the correlation between oil's price drop and the financial crisis despite the direct parallel on the calendar. Why? Will we ever find out what were AIG's underlying derivative transactions that channelled our tax dollars from the Fed to AIG to BoA, Society Generale, and others smarter investors? The Administration needed to pay the AIG bonuses to ensure their collective stupidity and collective monothought lack of faith in American innovation (Stanley Meyer) are not exposed. If the oil producing countries were smart, and I think they were, they would have been the counter party on every bet that oil prices would be either flat or continue to rise. During the run up, the oil produicing countries were very vocal about the break from normal supply and demand pricing mechanisms and the speculative nature of the run-up.
The long-standing propaganda machine to discredit Stanley Meyer was rooted in the financial system and the existing industrial leadership. It was too risky to alter the status quo dependancy on foreign oil. The Stanley Meyer technology represented disrupitive technology and we are currently experiencing the predicted disruption. It is unfortunate that American banks and the Federal Government are currently insolvent and unable to fund the transition to new technology. They were too vested in the status quo and wrong.
Ingenuity and entreprenuership are dead without capital and have been dead with regard to developing alternative fueling methods for our transportation needs for many, many years. Those who have the gold make the rules, right?
Just how much worse or better would the financial crisis be today if the speculative oil bubble had not burst in July 2008? There are, or were, too many Americans vested in our collective failure to innovate an alternative to fossil fuel. Now we are having to pay for their lack of faith.
Good thing the Japanese understand, have the assets, and are currently funding progress in this area. It is imperative that we keep free speech and the right to bear arms in America. They are the only tools common citizens have against a powerful and oppresive government. Free enterprise was unable to work its magic against the enormous financial interests of the status quo. Keep active in the Pickens Plan!
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Permalink Reply by Tom Bailey on -
A garage down the road from me documented a trial run with an old Subaru 4 banger. It had a big write up in the paper. They had a unit someone created out of a heavy duty house water filter. They removed the filter and fitted the unit with stainless steel plates and filled with distilled water. It did have some sort of low DC current.
It increased the mpg on that engine from 35 to 52. It actually increased (what you would call firepower) by utilizing the majority of the actual fuel, thus giving more bang for the buck. With the stronger bang it took less (Fuel) to power the car. Which would mean more MPG.
They tried it on a newer model but it only produced minimal increase, due to the onboard computor and 02 sensor which tells the system it is starving for fuel. They said the unit once bugs got worked out would run about a grand.
I heard from someone on this site they have same prob but have figured out how to fool the computor. I wrote down the guy's name but now I cannot find him among the tons of scribbled notes I have.
I think someone is on the brink of makin it happen.
Keep pushin the Pickens Plan; We will get there!!!!!
Best; Tom
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Permalink Reply by Jeff Smoley on
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Was the "low DC current" from the car's battery only? No one is saying that adding H2 and O2 gas to an engine won't work. What we are saying is that you can't get the power to take apart the H2O only from the car's battery and engine to get more power. There is electrical loss in the wires, in the alternator and in the device itself.
At best you get no gain.
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Permalink Reply by SJC on -
You can get 1000 watts or so from a car alternator and that is your energy budget. That amount of output from the alternator may get you about 0.1% of the energy that goes into the engine. You have converted energy in gasoline to engine rotation (20% efficient), to alternator rotation, to electrical energy (70% efficient) , to create hydrolysis of water (50% efficient) to putting the O2 and H2 into the engine again for rotation of the engine shaft (20% efficient), The total loses are (.2 x. .7 x .5 x .2 = 3.5% efficient). Quite a trip with lots of loses for very small results.
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