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NG Car Conversion List

I think that it would be a good idea to group the cars considered for conversion by year, make, model and engine type. That way we can find the most popular cars and contact the kit makers to see if they would make one.

We are bootstrapping an industry. Lots of people want to know if there is a kit for their car. We may able to get the kit makers to make the kits by showing them that there is a genuine interest in sufficient volume.

So, if you have a car that you would like to convert to NG or dual fuel, please indicate the make, model and year of the car in a response here and I will put together a list of the most popular cars.

Example:

2001 Ford Taurus SE 3.0 V6

Tags: CNG, Conversion

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kevin Payne on January 17, 2011 at 9:12pm
I agree with your stance on legalizing kits, but I do not see these kits ever gaining affordable certification.  It is truly as simple as having baseline and reasonable variance emissions numbers for all cars getting tested.  If emissions are within the accepted range, and the kit passes a safety inspection, it should be legal.  SEMA has been fighting this for years.  I wonder, though, are such kits legal in states where such smog tests are not required?
Permalink Reply by SJC on January 19, 2011 at 4:33pm
The EPA has started updating the process for certification. Previously CNG vehicles were fleet trucks with similar engines. There seemed to be no need for an enhanced program. Now that there are LOTS of pickup trucks sold to individuals who could make them CNG or dual fuel, it is a good time to have another look.
Permalink Reply by Peter Nelson on October 21, 2008 at 11:05pm
I have a chevy s10 1997 4 cyclinder, would love to have an option
Permalink Reply by SJC on January 19, 2011 at 4:36pm
Small pickups would be idea candidates. They are fuel efficient and there is space in the bed for a tank.
Permalink Reply by Regina on October 22, 2008 at 12:20am
How about the 2000 Volkswagon Golf...thanks for taking the initiative to get this going. I have been wondering about this.
:0)
Permalink Reply by SJC on February 26, 2009 at 4:37pm
Thanks Regina. With all the years, makes and models it will take quite a while to compile a good list.
Permalink Reply by SJC on August 26, 2009 at 11:01am
Out of more than 100,000 people listed on this site, we get maybe a dozen responses over a year and none the last 6 months and all of them have different vehicles. We can NOW see the nature of the problem.
Permalink Reply by Frank on February 7, 2011 at 7:46pm

Further to Curtis' explanation of the conversion industry and SLC's observations, although conversion kit manufacturers can potentially make a fortune selling their systems, the reality is that the market just isn't there for EPA or CARB certified aftermarket conversions.  Many people looking for certified systems are looking for tax incentives or an HOV sticker.  Manufacturers like Technocarb have offered EPA-certified systems for many years but the sales of those systems haven't come close to justifying the cost of obtaining and maintaining the certificates.  Curtis suggests that, given the choice between buying an EPA-certified or universal system, consumers will choose the cheaper universal system so universal systems should not be made available.  For a conversion system manufacturer, the choice is more like: sell what the market demands or go out of business.  Besides, the USA isn't conversion system manufacturers' only market as many manufacturers are based outside of the USA and most sell world-wide.

Using Technocarb's previously EPA-certified LPG system (certificate renewal status still being reviewed) for a 2005 & 2006 Ford F150 5.4L (3V - both 2 & 4WD) as an example, the MSRP is $4142.86.  The universal LPG 8-cylinder SVI System on which this certified system is based has an MSRP of $2421.43, a difference of $1428.57.  Add a fuel tank (say $800), miscellaneous parts (say $400), a generous amount of installation labor (up to 20 man-hrs @ $90/hr), an EPA-certified conversion would cost about $7150.  The non-certified CNG V8 SVIS universal system has an MSRP of $2850.00.  Basically, Technocarb takes the cost of certification and spreads it out over a reasonable amount of expected sales.  If an EPA certification costs $100,000 and they expect to sell 100 systems, the EPA-certified system could easily be $1000 more than the universal system (including vehicle-specific components and EPA programming). Having an EPA or CARB emissions certificate doesn't necessarily mean the vehicle is any cleaner than one without a certificate.  Since the EPA and CARB certificates are only for emissions, a certified system does not necessarily mean that it complies with NFPA 58 or NFPA 52 safety regulations.  The universal (non-certified) SVI System and ESIP Package (LPG or CNG), for example, will have lower emissions than what the vehicle would produce on gasoline (when properly calibrated) and will easily meet the safety requirements of NFPA 58 or NFPA 52.

Technocarb offers very competitively priced systems yet there is no market (for all intents and purposes) for the EPA-certified systems they have on the shelf.  It doesn't make sense for them to build CARB or EPA-certified systems based on an informal survey.  They do their research and provide products that the market demands.  Right now, the international market seems to be demanding their EcoDiesel System, which is currently undergoing European certification.  If people really want a CNG vehicle, they can start off by buying what is already on the market and there's several on the market already (see NGV America).  Interestingly, there are 3 CNG stations in Western NY that are currently selling CNG for $1.2275/GGE and the two local Honda Civic GX dealers don't seem to have any interest in promoting these vehicles.

As for converting an old El Camino, I believe there are still CARB EO systems available (see Can I convert a vehicle in California?) and they would most certainly cost a lot less than $15,000 installed.

I think the real problem is that CNG isn't priced so that people would have a reasonable payback on a conversion.  Just being 50¢/GGE cheaper than gasoline doesn't make good economic sense for a conversion and barely justifies the premium for OEM CNG vehicles. It doesn't help that natural gas utilities typically have very reasonable prices for CNG (when they offer CNG) but many don't seem to have any interest in NGV programs.

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