Hydrogen Fuel Cell

The holy grail is to store energy as hydrogen. Hydrogen can store 142 mega joules of energy per kilo gram. Our favorate energy source is gasoline(some hate it) at 46 mega joules per kilo gram. Better yet, If a hydrogen fuel cell is used to power a car it is 60 percent energy effecient versus an internal combustion energy at 16%. The Honda Clarity will travel 100 miles on a kilo gram of hydrogen while a Toyota Prius will tavel 7 miles on a kilo gram of gasoline.Theoretically the ICE is a Rube Goldberd design compared to the fuel cell. However; The hydrogen solution has been just as ellusive as the holy grail.

Here is good link for comparing energy storage densities. You will see that NG is a good energy storage "device".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density

PS: The exhaust is water vapor. No pollution from the fuel cell!

Tags: cell, fuel, hydrogen

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Permalink Reply by Terrence Abrams on November 18, 2008 at 11:28am: that's only one way to produce it Ed.

Hey KEN, please check out RONN Motors, a new breakout group soaring on the stock exchange right now, and see their technology reports.

I'd like your opinion on how that fits in or out of H-Cells being one way to reach the promised land.

Ronn Motors just licensed their new water injection system out to other major players in the automotive and transportation industries, for new thermal dynamic reactions in engine,s mainly derived by water or other hydrogen-based fuels.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Mike Johnston on December 8, 2008 at 10:37am: would be much better if their on-board H2 production thing worked lol; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Thomas Dixon on December 1, 2008 at 11:13am: “ One problem with Hydrogen Fuel Cells is that currently hydrogen on a large scale is produced from natural gas. That is OK by me, but doesn't get around the carbon issue.”

If your energy source to split water is geothermal and geothermal is basically limitless then the carbon issue becomes mute and hydrogen becomes plentiful. It boggles the mind why we are not using geothermal more than we are now. Hawaii should be getting all its power from geothermal but it isn’t. I have been told it’s because magma is just too hot to handle. Can’t we overcome this obstacle--?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Thomas Dixon on December 1, 2008 at 11:08am: Question #1:
Does a hydrogen fuel cell produce its work by heat driving a mechanical system or electric using electrical chemical forces-?
Question #2:
How do you recharge your fuel cell and can this recharging system be like a battery pack, you unplug one and plug in another-?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Oscar on December 2, 2008 at 10:59pm: 1. A fuel cell can be operated forward or reverse. one way is by adding H2 and O and through something like a PNP junction it produces electricity. The other direction is to electrify (solar or other source) the cell and produce H2 and O.

2. A fuel cell is a charger. Just add hydrogen and oxygen. You can charge batteries or with the appropriate size light up your house or power your car.

I used to work in a place that used graphite shafts for mixing molten metal and cut some of the spent shafts into 3" dia. disks 1/2" thick. Some day I will build one, maybe after I retire. I found plans years ago. I'll probably light myself up. lol

Other than solar for a fuel cell one has to consider the source resource. Two fuel cells-one for creating H2 from solar and one using H2 to power the house would be the ideal world as long as the H2 is a constant supply.

By the way, natural gas is NOT a fossil fuel!!! It is older than oil and newer than compost. It is created during the digestion process of anerobic bacteria called methanogens. NG is a renewable product. The latest estimate of supply I have seen is about 250 years. I feel confident that technology can figure out how to improve bio-digesters by then. Clean up the earth, make methane (NG) from landfills, sewage treatment, agricultural waste and commercial waste. Best of all NG is 20x less of a greenhouse gas after it is burned.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Thomas Dixon on December 3, 2008 at 8:48am: Thank you for your reply. And from your statement a fuel cell produces power by using a chemical reaction converting this reaction to electric power. It does not burn the hydrogen producing heat which drives a mechanical system. In other words it is electricity that comes from the fuel cell not heat, although heat is a byproduct.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Oscar on December 3, 2008 at 1:07pm: Yes, the junction is a base like the graphite disk, a layer of electrolytic fabric and a screen of noble metal like platinum for instance, all pressed together with heat and pressure. The reaction to produce electricity re-combines the H2 and O. The reverse is feeding electricity to the junction and moisture laden air through it to split the water molecules. Care is to be taken that no water actually accumulates within the junction. Heat is the latent effect of the molecular action. (I'm not sure latent is the right word) Anyway, I really enjoy playing with this kind of stuff.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Thomas Dixon on December 8, 2008 at 8:51am: Can you tell me how you recharge a fuel cell or is it just tossed out when the hydrogen is used up-?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Mike Johnston on December 8, 2008 at 10:36am: you re-fill the hydrogen tank.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Thomas Dixon on December 9, 2008 at 1:12pm: “you re-fill the hydrogen tank.”

This is where the problem is. Most people do not want to handle a tank full of hydrogen. This part of the fuel cell must change. They need to build interchangeable tanks that you can remove and replace with another charged tank. And the tank must be a universal design that all fuel cell makers use so that all fuel cell tanks are the same.

I would rather replace the tank with a recharged one than have to fill a tank with hydrogen gas.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Kenneth Koch on December 3, 2008 at 1:21pm: Thomas,

The hydrogen fuel cell will waste at least 50% of the energy as heat. That is better than an ICE which turns 84% of the energy to heat.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Thomas Dixon on December 11, 2008 at 8:38am: The central problem still remains, where are you going to get the hydrogen -?; ▶ Reply to This