Hydrogen Fuel Cell

The holy grail is to store energy as hydrogen. Hydrogen can store 142 mega joules of energy per kilo gram. Our favorate energy source is gasoline(some hate it) at 46 mega joules per kilo gram. Better yet, If a hydrogen fuel cell is used to power a car it is 60 percent energy effecient versus an internal combustion energy at 16%. The Honda Clarity will travel 100 miles on a kilo gram of hydrogen while a Toyota Prius will tavel 7 miles on a kilo gram of gasoline.Theoretically the ICE is a Rube Goldberd design compared to the fuel cell. However; The hydrogen solution has been just as ellusive as the holy grail.

Here is good link for comparing energy storage densities. You will see that NG is a good energy storage "device".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density

PS: The exhaust is water vapor. No pollution from the fuel cell!

Tags: cell, fuel, hydrogen

▶ Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by nick on September 24, 2008 at 11:36am: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2008/08/01/new-oxygen-hyd...; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Colt Lewis on September 24, 2008 at 12:23pm: The FSU-FAMU College of Engineering Chemical Engineering Department is working on producing hydrogen from cellulose. Right now we are working on the first step, which has nothing to do with hydrogen. We are very excited about the plan, although I might not see the project to completion as a student.

From what I understand the hydrogen fuel cells are fouled by carbon monoxide; which is why purity is so important. Our technology hopefully will produce so little CO, that it will not disrupt the fuel cell. The gas created will be H2 and CO2 which can be run through the fuel cell, only the H2 reacts.

I don't agree with hydrogen being stored over 3,000 PSI, even that is dangerous. The most important part of hydrogen technology is creating the hydrogen on-board. If hydrogen fuel cells would allow CO, they would be more efficient because no seperation or compression will be needed.

Our technology will not require hydrogen refueling, the fuel is cellulose, so check out the energy density of it. I agree with what you guys are saying on both sides, hydrogen might not be easy but it could be a good thing as long as everyone realizes how much CO2 is released by making the hydrogen.

Matt and Ken, you guys are barking up the right tree, and I am proud of you!

Harvey, nothing comes cheap at first, it is all about the getting thin films in both solar and hydrogen to drive down the costs of both.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Terrence Abrams on September 26, 2008 at 11:04am: Alright guys, here's a fact I posted in other forums weeks ago:

Buick developed the world's first Hydrogen Cell car back in 1998, and tested/publicized it in mid-1999. It was on the front page of USA Today and shown in short videos on most morning news shows.

This prototype Buick sedan, which also had research and development assistance from both Chevron and Goodyear, was able to attain consistent speeds of 80 MPH, and cover 600 miles per hydrogen cell charge. Mass production of those proposed H-Cells was to be at a price of $29.00 per cell, the cells were about the size of a catcher's mitt in future proposed design drafts, which would be purchased at any normal filling station, to snap out the empty cell and snap in the new one for new H-Cell GM car designs.

This was all back in 1999 !!!

Now Honda is bragging about their H-Cell fuel car which only gets 220-240 miles per charge in range, requires a CNG recharge of the cell, and is advised not to drive in speeds greater than 60 MPH.

Big whoopee! Where is our GM H-Cell car ?? Even if the cell was larger back in the prototype, this buick was running strong in 1999!! Going on 10 years later, we have nothing, squat on this.

Granted, this Buick was designed 'slimmer' for prototypical testing services, but it was also longer, heavier and more steel framed than this Honda golf cart we're asked to get behind.

GM deserves to die on this if they don't recoup their old research properly.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Mike Johnston on September 26, 2008 at 12:15pm: I was pretty familliar with hydrogen research going on in 1999 and I don't remember a Buick. Do you have a link to that info?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Terrence Abrams on September 26, 2008 at 12:21pm: I wish I did! Man I wish I did! I have found some others who remembered the same Buick Prototype research, but all we can do is hit up the USA Today for their front-page article back in the summer of 1999.

Maybe GM can shed more light on it too, they're pretty hush-hush nowadays about where they've been and where they'll arrive, if they're still in business by the time their H-Cell car is ready for market.

I can swear to you the truth and facts about what I posted, but this thing was buried by GM before the end of 1999 even came. No one really knows why. It was on TV, USA today, even some industry mags put it on the cover.

I don't have what I knew you'd want, I'd like to get my hands on those news clippings and video right now too.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Kenneth Koch on September 26, 2008 at 12:26pm: I have studied the hydrogn fuel cell and what you are talking about is not possibe. I think the Honda Carity is as good as todays technology gets.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Mike Johnston on September 26, 2008 at 12:41pm: Most of the cost of fuel cells is the Platinum catalyst. That is the same catalyst used in the catalytic converter on your car and catalytic converters are far simpler than fuel cells and since catalytic converters are usually over $100 each I don't think the figure he quotes for fuel cells is accurate.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Terrence Abrams on September 26, 2008 at 1:45pm: Well, they showed a team of critics praising the thing, and the video was a collection of minutes that showed the car hitting enough track laps at a goodyear testing facility, at 80 MPH, and the 1200 lap made it 600 miles, right before it stopped, out of charge. That was all in the video.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Mike Johnston on September 26, 2008 at 12:39pm: This listing from hydrogencarsnow has 10 hydrogen cars from 1999. None of them are a Buick:

http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/hydrogencars1999.htm

There are 8 GM cars in the list though. Perhaps you got your Buick confused with one of those. Hydrogencarsnow has been around for a while and I am sure they would have listed your Buick if it was in USA Today.

Looks like a story for Snopes lol; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Terrence Abrams on September 26, 2008 at 1:47pm: Not at all, Snopes would tell you to quit wasting your time on their site. I swear on everything, this was a real deal, it was on the front page of USA Today, and on all the major network morning shows in a 2-day period since the test and video were released that same week in 1999.

Others here know it too, go ahead and argue what you 'do' know about it.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Mike Johnston on September 26, 2008 at 2:07pm: I am not disputing that you remember things as you describe them. But the lack of available reference material makes it uncertain as to whether your memory is accurate. I am curious to know the truth of it though so I am reviewing the USA Today covers for 1999 and will post the results of that effort.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Terrence Abrams on September 26, 2008 at 2:13pm: Good idea, I just sent them a research and retrieval request myself for that article. One I get it, I'll post it. The video would be great too, I'm hoping they have that on file as well. The Buick was a full-length sedan, with a huge H-Cell in it, but it was also slightly thinner than a conventional car.; ▶ Reply to This