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Inexpensive CNG conversion kit for cars.

I realize that most modern cars have complex elaborate ignition computers that regulate the flow of air and gasoline into the engine using a vast array of sensors to prevent the need for tuneups, and improve ignition stability and gas mileage. I realize also that any conversion kit to CNG brings a new set of ignition parameters to the table, and that existing sensors, and computer settings will not work for optimal CNG ignition. Howerver that being said, it seems to me that a standardized electronic adapter could be created to "Fool" the vastly differing ignition computer systems in a "Standard" way, since the sensors used on most cars are nearly identical in electrical characteristics. (The computers are very different, but the output of the sensors is nearly identical) So to make an inexpensive "Universal" conversion kit, all you need to do is "Alter" the signal reports being sent back to the ignition computer from the sensors in a "Standard" way and you have a universally compatible conversion kit system. Then all cars could be converted with the same conversion kit. Has anyone approached the conversion kit problem from this angle? If this issue is taken care of then the rest of the conversion kit could be an EPA approved standard kit, and we wouldn't need to have every model year of every manufacturer go through the expensive EPA approval process. The pre-approved Universal kit could be used for any car and the mountains of Government "Red Tape" would be removed from the CNG conversion process.

Tags: CNG, Conversion, Gas, Inexpensive, Natural, Universal, kits

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Permalink Reply by SJC on February 2, 2011 at 2:42pm
The real gain comes with trucks. Whether deliver trucks or long haul, getting them on CNG and DME takes them off oil. We can have hybrid trucks getting better mileage, but getting them off oil is the big gain in reducing oil imports.
Permalink Reply by Frank on February 2, 2011 at 3:30pm
I agree but the original topic was "Inexpensive CNG conversion kit for cars".  There are already diesel dual fuel systems on the market (like the EcoDiesel System).  AFAIK, DME systems are still on the drawing board.
Permalink Reply by Frank on February 10, 2011 at 2:31pm

For those people not requiring an EPA or CARB certified CNG system, there are several options available, some of which were mentioned earlier.  CNG ESIP Parts Packages are available at Raso Enterprises. Assembling the components will NOT result in an EPA-certified system so the Packages are only recommended for off-road applications. As a limited-time promotion, 4 & 6 cylinder packages are specially priced.

The above prices include the basic component package, a hose & clamp package, and a vapor filter(s). An interface cableis also required to connect to a laptop computer for configuration.

No installation support is included with the ESIP parts package and the ESIP package is NOT recommended for the DIYer.  However, CNG conversion shops (like Bob Mann's CNG VW Shop) could easily help to ensure that the parts are correctly installed so that the installation meets NFPA 52 and that the package is correctly configured for low emissions and high fuel economy.

Permalink Reply by SJC on February 11, 2011 at 1:50pm
This why we need CNG for local trucks and DME for long haul. DME is made from methanol, which is made from natural gas. It is like propane in that it becomes liquid at low pressure and has higher energy density and longer range.
Permalink Reply by Robert Mann on February 11, 2011 at 2:21pm

Hello After a number of years of building CNG VW turbo setups. I have found the set up too work great and

at 60 cents a GAL of CNG at my oun home filling station to be the best deal in the USA. But I never got the state or the USA to help me and this site too.  I find ever one just go,s to the gasoline pumps and bites there lip and takes it were the sun do,s not sh+++. 

 With that said I have found it is best to just do the convertion to your car or truck get a home filler and save money and your part of the planet.

I have moved on to build a new wind mill called the Tree Top Wind Mill it bolts to the top of trees or your home it is a

Vertical Axil Wind Turbine 4 feet high 3 feet wide wieghs 55 LB and makes well over 500 watts at low speed.

here is a link of my friend Jeffs site . http://www.missouriwindandsolar.com/Home_Page.html

 

Bob Mann

www.CNGVW.com

 

 

Permalink Reply by SJC on February 12, 2011 at 11:52am
Your VW project looks great. Many people look for stories like yours and say if they can do why don't more people? I never have a good answer for that question.
Permalink Reply by Frank on February 14, 2011 at 12:53pm

Bob does have a nice CNG conversion.  Unfortunately, the more fuel-efficient the vehicle, the harder it is to get a reasonably quick payback on the conversion.  If there isn't a public CNG station nearby (there are 2 in the Boston area), installing a VRA (like BRC FuelMaker's Phill) adds a few thousand to the price but saves on the fuel price (less O&M costs).  Bob could explain this much better than I could.

I think the biggest problem is sticker shock. A lot of people have no problem with spending a couple hundred dollars on a cold air system (for example) with a marginal return on improved fuel economy yet will balk with spending a few thousand on a proper CNG system that has a realistic payback.  Going back to Bob's point about gas pumps and sunshine, I think another way to say it is that a poor man can spend $50 twenty times but can't spend $500 once.

Other problems are the scarcity of public CNG stations and the often high relative cost of CNG when its available. Clean Energy's apparent policy of pricing CNG about $0.50/GGE less than the going price of gasoline makes the return on a CNG conversion and the premium on an OEM CNG vehicle often marginal at best.

I've also heard of concerns with reduced power and with limited driving range. If you're a commuter, low fuel costs are more important than 1/4 times. If you don't mind having to fill up more often (like every night when you come home), the important thing is that you have enough CNG for a round trip.

Permalink Reply by Robert Mann on February 14, 2011 at 1:07pm

Hello Frank thanks for the nice words. I have found the VW 1.8 Turbo the best of both worlds I have gotten 40 MPG on CNG a few times and 300 miles to the tank. To drive one of my CNG Turbo cars is something. There is now CNG car out there that can out power one of mine.

But as I have said before I never realy made and money doing the convertion to spoty.

I did build a 500 HP CNG bi-Fuel 2001 VW Beetle street racer for my self I still have it. It is warming up here today I plan

on shovling it out of the snow and drive it.

Bob Mann

Permalink Reply by rick krefting on March 9, 2011 at 8:30pm

For cheap tanks just go hear they are refurbished. Plus they sell Brand neew tanks as well.

http://cngunited.com/products/cng-tanks-and-cylinders

This is a good site to check out.

 

Permalink Reply by SJC on March 10, 2011 at 12:11pm

Thanks Rick, that is valuable information.

It gives us a rough estimate for costs and that is a good place to start.  

Permalink Reply by rick krefting on March 10, 2011 at 2:42pm
Your welcome once I have more info I plan to spread the message in my neighborhood
Permalink Reply by SJC on March 10, 2011 at 3:22pm
A lot of people ask where they can get a kit for their car, I would rather they ask how they can help convert truck fleets. It is about reducing imported oil, so if we get 1 million trucks off oil that is like 5 million cars.

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