Inexpensive CNG conversion kit for cars.
I realize that most modern cars have complex elaborate ignition computers that regulate the flow of air and gasoline into the engine using a vast array of sensors to prevent the need for tuneups, and improve ignition stability and gas mileage. I realize also that any conversion kit to CNG brings a new set of ignition parameters to the table, and that existing sensors, and computer settings will not work for optimal CNG ignition. Howerver that being said, it seems to me that a standardized electronic adapter could be created to "Fool" the vastly differing ignition computer systems in a "Standard" way, since the sensors used on most cars are nearly identical in electrical characteristics. (The computers are very different, but the output of the sensors is nearly identical) So to make an inexpensive "Universal" conversion kit, all you need to do is "Alter" the signal reports being sent back to the ignition computer from the sensors in a "Standard" way and you have a universally compatible conversion kit system. Then all cars could be converted with the same conversion kit. Has anyone approached the conversion kit problem from this angle? If this issue is taken care of then the rest of the conversion kit could be an EPA approved standard kit, and we wouldn't need to have every model year of every manufacturer go through the expensive EPA approval process. The pre-approved Universal kit could be used for any car and the mountains of Government "Red Tape" would be removed from the CNG conversion process.
Tags: CNG, Conversion, Gas, Inexpensive, Natural, Universal, kits
Views: 7084
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Billy Jackson on -
Right on! What do we need to do to ge started? I think the oil people will do anything they can to stop this. If vehicles can run on propane they can run on natural gas. I've heard some of the problems could be getting the right kind of tanks for cars to use natural gas.
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Permalink Reply by David Southern on -
I understand the tanks will cost up to $4,000, that is a tuff pill for many to swallow! Got to get the cost of those tanks down considerbally!
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Permalink Reply by leszek zajac on -
im going to sell late this Year wery lightweit aluminum with carbon fiber wrop tanks for CNG for very good price. Les
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Permalink Reply by Tom Colthurst on -
Everyone here has great ideas that should be documented and assessed. I am taking a broader approach to all the details eg. tanks, ignition, epa, universal kit, etc. I think we start with one or two popular models like a ford and chevy truck to get some big numbers of testing going. These vehicles have the worst mileage and the owners have the most to gain.
I want to target every ford or chevy vehicle owner and present them to a company doing conversions. If a company sees 50 thousand customers at their door, the shear volume would drop the price and heads would turn.
NG stations and CNG car dealerships once the cars are being converted.
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Permalink Reply by Charlene on -
I agree with this but I have a Chevy with a carburator what about these vehicles?Do you know how many of these vehicles are crushed everyday because they are considered gas hogs? What a sickening waste of resources I believe in keeping these on the road too with fuel efficient crossover kits.
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Permalink Reply by Barry Mead on -
Conversion for older cars with carburetors is much simpler. Modern ignition computers interfere with conversions, by trying to make the car run with the same mixture and airflow as gasoline. With a carburetor, you can set everything manually, and it stays that way. (Air flow, fuel mixture, etc) Cars with ignition computers, need
a new set of parameters (fuel/air/temperature,post ignition oxygen content) to operate correctly with CNG. Traditionally these altered parameters, are accomplished, by replacing the engine computer with a NEW one that understands when the car is
running on CNG, or Gasolline, and adjusts these ignition parameters accordingly.
I propose that these dual mode parameter settings be accomplished, by having
two sets of ignition parameters stored in a "Sensor Adapter" instead of the ignition
computer itself. This method allows for a "Universal Conversion" kit system that
will work for all cars regardless of engine type, computer type, make model, year
or whatever!
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Permalink Reply by DubleDeuce on -
Hello Charlene,
IF you have a Cheby with a carburetor you need to find a crusher and do the world a favor. (BTW, in SOME communities of California they will PAY you -about $600 bucks- to snitch on your car as a gas hog and turn it in for crushing. In CA (any state for that matter) you could really prove your green credentials by opting into that program. (I wonder if we could get ole' Boss Hog from the "Dukes of Hazard" to flip his cow horned Caddy into that program?
If you were given a choice of SPENDING $16,000 (given the greenie you appear to be) would you spend it on you Cheby for an CNG update OR go buy a very late model car for the same price and gain better MPG, and a better car? Your choice Charlene.
Once the money is coming out of YOUR pocket the options are now controlled from the pocketbook, not the heart. Even at $6,000 for a retrofit, it would not make economic sense.
The Deuceman
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Permalink Reply by Scott on -
Well maybe CA needs to look at things a bit differently. I have a carb aspirated 1967 Jeep truck with NO emmission controls to speak of, and with this being a large, V8 powered, 1 ton, 4x4, virtually no aerodynamics at all, and of course being 42 years old, I get better fuel economy than my sons 2005 Dodge 1/2 ton pickup. Who's to say all older vehicles need the crusher? Oh, by the way, here in Texas, a vehicle of this age is exempt for emmission testing, but my local inspection station was curious, and he put it on the machine, and it passed.. Oh well, who says new is better. I would take the old Jeep to CNG fast, if it were affordable.
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Permalink Reply by Bruce Becking on -
Charlene,
MSD makes a very tunable ignition system that can be altered with a laptop computer. Here is the Timing/Idle Control that MSD offers. This would solve the timing issues needed to adjust for the CNG. Trick is if you set a certian perameters for CNG and Gas the switch would be done in seconds.
http://www.msdignition.com/info.aspx?taxid=38
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Permalink Reply by henry hill on -
There are many systems available for older carbureted vehicles and they don't cost an arm and a leg. One system in particular is the EFS-600 by Technocarb, this is a feedback controlled system for carbureted applications ( can even used on early fuel injected engines). This is older technology by today's standards, but is light years ahead of the old Impco mixers. Conversions are about half the cost for the underhood equipment as well. Also don't everyone get drunk on CNG, it may be cheap but the conversion costs are much greater than LPG, mainly because of the tanks, lines and regulator.
$16,000 for a CNG system is a RIPOFF. Top quality injection equipment for late model vehicles runs about $3000 for the underhood parts ( regulator included ) and you then add tanks and lines. Economy systems will save about $1000.
Furthermore using CNG or LPG will be an improvement in cleaner air as compared to gasoline. As far as the desire to use domestic fuel ? Well CNG and LPG are in abundance in North America, all we have to do is use it. Time for everyone to stop talking, and just go do it. The equipment, installers and fuel are all waiting.
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Permalink Reply by Scott on
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Henry,
Where are affordable installers?? I am in Fort Worth, TX, and would love to have you point them out to me..
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Permalink Reply by Hernan Nucci on
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I totally agree. It's all invented and in use by the millons in South America.
I'ts all about critical mass and starting on the right place with the right target market.
As far as I read, the plan is relying heavily on the effects of the proposed NAT GAS Act of 2009.
That will help, for sure but it’s clear that we will not replace gasoline with natural gas just because we have a law and this initiative.
We will probably have a legal body of regulations and incentives, but that won’t be enough to create this new market and it’s players.
I think that we need to reframe the issue from the perspective of the users of this new fuel. Instead of looking at this as a way to be energy independent in xx years, we need to see this as a likely user will see it.
In the end, we will reach the goal, but the change driver will be different.
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