Inexpensive CNG conversion kit for cars.
I realize that most modern cars have complex elaborate ignition computers that regulate the flow of air and gasoline into the engine using a vast array of sensors to prevent the need for tuneups, and improve ignition stability and gas mileage. I realize also that any conversion kit to CNG brings a new set of ignition parameters to the table, and that existing sensors, and computer settings will not work for optimal CNG ignition. Howerver that being said, it seems to me that a standardized electronic adapter could be created to "Fool" the vastly differing ignition computer systems in a "Standard" way, since the sensors used on most cars are nearly identical in electrical characteristics. (The computers are very different, but the output of the sensors is nearly identical) So to make an inexpensive "Universal" conversion kit, all you need to do is "Alter" the signal reports being sent back to the ignition computer from the sensors in a "Standard" way and you have a universally compatible conversion kit system. Then all cars could be converted with the same conversion kit. Has anyone approached the conversion kit problem from this angle? If this issue is taken care of then the rest of the conversion kit could be an EPA approved standard kit, and we wouldn't need to have every model year of every manufacturer go through the expensive EPA approval process. The pre-approved Universal kit could be used for any car and the mountains of Government "Red Tape" would be removed from the CNG conversion process.
Tags: CNG, Conversion, Gas, Inexpensive, Natural, Universal, kits
Views: 6980
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Frodo Baggins. on -
Why not GTL? The only thing limiting this is cost on NG exceeds the value of the produced product. NG tracks petroleum.
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Permalink Reply by Barry Mead on -
Henry is absolutely right! The EPA is too greedy, and too much into their own power and importance to ever get behind any solution to our Nation's energy problems. The solution already exists without special modifications to the engine computer. The engine computers can already handle "Dual Fuel Type settings" Look at E85 cars for instance.
The ECU notices that the fuel type has changed, and automatically adjusts its feedback systems to accommodate the other fuel. Several "High Performance" automotive enthusiasts have cracked the secrets to the ECU fuel type programming systems, and can load alternate fuel types into the ECU. These people are not able to drive their altered vehicles on the public roads however, due to EPA laws. If the EPA would just "ALLOW" it we could solve our nation's energy crisis. I don't blame the Arabs for wanting to sell their oil at the highest possible price, it is in their best interest to do so. But our own Government agency that is supposed to represent the best interests of our country has turned it's back on it's mandated charter to satisfy an ego boost to its top officials, or to line their pockets with more cash, is truly "EVIL" in my book. This is a case of "Absolute Power Corrupting Absolutely". The only way to break this cycle of Evil and Corruption is to build enough public awareness and to "STRIP" the EPA of their corrupting power. They have so many GREEN MOVEMENT loyalists behind them that it will be difficult to gain the kind of support necessary to force them to clean up their act. By that time it may be too late for our country to recover, or the nuclear bombs may be falling. It is a sad story.
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Permalink Reply by Ray Phillips on -
News on the CNG vehicle front.
http://www.automotive-fleet.com/News/Story/2008/12/Chevy-Impala-CNG...
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Permalink Reply by henry hill on -
I hope this doesn't go the way of the Ford GFI CNG program. There are many people that have these factory Ford converted vehicles and are now SOL since they cannot get parts for the factory systems - parts no longer available from Ford ! There were so many problems that Ford washed their hands of it. Unless you can find these parts used the only choice is to re-do the installation with another system ( OE tank and lines are o.k.). Had one poor customer come in with a E-250 van he bought at auction, and was told the failed part to get the van running was only about $15.00 ....ya right, if you could find a good used one you are talking $1500.00 ! Ford abandoned these people, so hopefully GM doesn't. With the shakey ground they are on you never know what programs they will cut or lose interest in. Ford apparently is trying to re-enter the market after screwing those customers !
The alternate fuel industry has much greater and longer term experience that these automakers with CNG, and have stayed commited to the business. The best is to find a reputable installer and get an aftermarket system installed on your present vehicle, much cheaper than buying a new vehicle and you have your own local repair expert to go to. Also any qualified shop can attain information and parts to do repairs from the equipment distributors unlike being stuck having to go to the dealerships where you are over a barrel, or like Ford, under it.
I may sound biased against Ford, but really I am venting my disgust at how they dealt with their CNG customers and felt it fair to forward the warning.
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Permalink Reply by henry buehler on -
review by someone who has one of the 15 epa approved conversions
2008 Impala LTZ 3.9 by Natural Drive.
1. Miles per GGE. – I’ll point this out two ways, first will be hwy driving, second I’ll use combination city and hwy. In two trips to Dallas TX I had long drives of 228 miles between fuel stops. I was only able to get a fill of 3200 psi at ambient temp at my starting point. My finishing psi was 900 with very cool tanks. So, conservatively my net use was 2300 psi. Using the formula ratio of 10.8 tank gge @ 3600 psi, my starting gge was 9.6 @ 3200. With and ending psi of 900 my equivalent gge was 2.7 giving me a net use of
6.9. 228 divided by 6.9 gave me 33.04 mpg. On both trips I drove conservatively averaging about 65 mph. Hwy miles per mpg = 8 pts. If I do a combination of city and hwy driving, mpg falls back to 21 – 25 = 6 pts.
2. Traveling range with the 10.8 gge tanks gives you conservately a range of 330 to 350 on the highway = 8 pts. If you fall back to a 23 mpg for city driving you get a range of almost 250 miles.= 6 pts.
3. Impala has nice reasonable trunk space and will carry 5 adults. = 7 pts.
4. I purchased my LTZ model with 10,000 miles on it for just under $20,000 add the conversion @ $12,500. Even with other goodies I’ve added I am still under $35,000.= 5 pts. I am still in the range with no deductions but I will have to take car keys away from my wife soon or she will break 20,000 miles.
5. One of the things I was wanting to see was how much drop in performance I would notice after the conversion. The answer was surprisingly zero. The LTZ 3.9 is fast and handles great. The people I have let drive it are very surprised it is natural gas. With 18” low profile tires, the car corners real well and it is very fun to drive. It is an easy 8 pts.
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Permalink Reply by Khary Sudan on -
Hello Mead. It sounds practical to me.
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Permalink Reply by Khary Sudan on
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The science and technology is not the problem. As is evident by the unfolding scenario of the on going financial meltdown, who owns and runs the banks makes a great difference! We, the people, need our own financial institutions to fund our own economic deliverance. A million people could invest $25.00 each and that $25,000,000 would be enough to start the ball rolling on vehicle conversions.
The basic problem Americans have is not understanding and being familiar with the term "Democratic Capitalism". It's our money we can handle it ourselves. Finance is sort of like farming. Do you want to own the farm or just be a tenant farmer? Our focus should be own the money not the technology. Most of the technology is on the shelf now or in rapid development. That's my take on the situation. Financial control in the hand of the investment bankers or or the people. What's your take? You make the call! T. Boone Pickens has not once mentioned a technology crisis he is constantly focused on our financial crisis. It's about the money. Let's handle our own money!
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Permalink Reply by Barry Mead on
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It is about money, and it is also about POWER. Those with the power will not let go for any reason. Nancy Pelosi, for instance, bites like a junk yard dog at anyone who does not support her GREEN policies, yet flies around in a personal jet polluting the planet and charging the taxpayers to do it!
People like her and Al Gore, are saying one thing, and forcing others to give up their personal freedoms and lifestyles for the good of the GREEN, while they themselves do just the opposite. This is complete hypocrisy. Once they have the power and money they think they are ABOVE the common man. They look down upon us LOWLIFE common people and act as if they are all powerful gods.
People like Senate Majority leader Harry Reid who spent $650 million taxpayer dollars to build a special congressional tourism wing so they can stop tours of the actual congress, because they don't want to have to SMELL the lowly commoners that stink up halls of congress. These people are completely POWER CORRUPTED and ELITIST snobs. They believe that they are better than us and that they are endowed by some special right to tell us how to live our lives while they live by a completely different and unrestricted set of rules! Our government has gotten completely corrupt, and full of itself, and it makes me sick.
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Permalink Reply by SJC on -
I agree in principle. If a candidate can raise $100 million on the internet, then why not for CNG kits or any other innovation. Perhaps we need company launch pads that have all the requirements for incorporation and stock offerings prepackaged. Then we could all vote with our dollars to get the EPA to become more reasonable on this. That is where to start and I do not see any movement from this site to do so.
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Permalink Reply by Kent Lott on -
This technology already exsists in most of the quality conversion kits in use today.
The problem is not the technology it is mans greed. Cars are being converted by the hundreds already and produce great performance and vastly better emmissions. Then we hear from the jealous greedy "Dogs in a Manger" (they can't eat the hay, but they don't want the cows to eat it either). They seem to think they should have a corner on the CNG conversion market so they have been trying to stop these conversions from taking place. Detroit is a mess and will never replace the current rolling stock that is consuming gasoline for decades. Only the private sector conversion businesses that are currently viewed as "illegal" will can and will do that unless they are shut down by over regulation. A currently "EPA or
CARB certified CNG conversion cost about $12,000.00 and can only be performed on a very few vehicle models. There is no incentive for the average person to do this. Sometimes it is just impossible. There are no conversions for your make or model. The aftermarket conversions can be done for about $3500.00 to $4000.00. This puts the conversions into the payback range. Also these vehicles are left duel fueled and can run either fuel on demand. All you have done to the car is add a second fuel system. Nothing else is tampered with. These conversion run 70% cleaner that gasoline.
If the Picken Plan is to work these conversion businesses are a KEY componet.
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Permalink Reply by Diane Stevenett on -
Do you happen to know how to convert an '06 JEEP COMMANDER to CNG? Chrysler is not/has not made a conversion kit for this Jeep, nor will in the near future they say....bad boys!
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