Add Rail Electrification to "The Plan."

Hello Everyone,

I'd like to push for an additional component to the plan that can also create a significant reduction in foreign oil consumption. Create an "Iron Interstate" electrified rail network throughout the United States. An electrified rail line is like having an oil well, because it directly replaces liquid fuel energy with domestic energy off the electric grid. And electrical energy is about a tenth of the cost of the same net energy from gasoline or diesel. That means we can have mile long trains flying across the midwest at 80 mph being powered by anything and evedrything feeding the grid. (From a nuclear power plant to a wind farm to someone's solar panel on their house.) And the money we send to Saudi Arabia instead stays here to pay for good jobs in maintaing and expanding the system.

Tags: alternative energy, rail electrification

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Permalink Reply by neil cox on September 7, 2008 at 9:21am: I'm unsure what you have in mind. The power could be delivered from a bare over head line though a trolley. Some diesel electric locomotives use 750 volts single phase ac, which can be obtained from the grid with the help of a transformer. 5 of these locomotives use 100 megawatts on a hard pull, which is far more than is available most places along the track. The trolley could supplement the diesel engine and alternator in the locomotive, with some savings of desel fuel. Present tracks typically are not safe at 80 miles per hour, perhaps 55 miles per hour is ok without costly upgrade.
The two tracks could be 750 volts apart, but this also means only part of the power needed with rare exceptions. 750 volts also means electrocuted trespassers and both locomotives and the cars would need extensive modification as they presently short circuit the rails together. Laser beams could energize photovoltaic panels on each locomotive. I think laser diodes are about 50% efficient, but there would be a severe eye damage possibility. This much local power typically is not available for this method either.
Magnetic induction = linear motor has been demonstrated for light rail. Scale up may be possible. Existing rolling stock is not compatible.
All these require the power to be fed at one mile intervals or oftener, so there is a large power feed cost. Where track is used as a ground near buy pipes and other metal are often damaged due to current flow in the ground near the tracks, Most of the electric trains were retired many decades ago for good reasons. Neil; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Dale Nelson on September 7, 2008 at 11:42am: Neil says:

'Most of the electric trains were retired many decades ago for good reasons'

Not so, Wikipedia lists a number of places where electrified trains run throughout the world:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_systems_for_electric_r...

including: High Speed Lines in Holland; Japan Railways; Belgian National Railways; Polish State Railways; Austrian and German Federal Railways; Finnish Railways; French National Railways; Greece is currently upgrading to full electrification.

Here is a link to the ongoing process of making trans European Union trains possible. It appears that allmost all are electrified:

http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/voltage_map_europe.php

Wikipedia also has a discussion of the subject here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_railway

Electrififying the railroads could provide a new method of transmission: put the long distance electric lines above the tracks.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Michael Hromanik on September 7, 2008 at 12:28pm: Yes, rail electrification is well figured out. And the railroad companies are the largest biggest users of diesel fuel in North America.

Electrical distribution is a good piggyback concept also. Wind generation tends to occur in remote areas. But major rail lines criss-cross the midwest and west.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by neil cox on September 7, 2008 at 7:40pm: I stand corrected, perhaps half of all electric train systems ever built are still operational. There are at least three Wikipedia articles about electric trains. It appears they have never been standardized, nor the best long term approach identified. The technology is still advancing, so we need to make a new electric train system that has at least a chance at being compatable, with future advances.
I like the laser diode approach and I think it is ready to be implemented, except we need to manufacture billions of laser diodes, instead of the present several million per year worldwide. The railroad cars could have electric traction motors on some or all of their wheels, and small steerable photovoltaic panels on the roof, which pick up the laser beams from steerable lasers on both sides of the railroad right away. The laser array would shut off when it was not pointing at a photovoltaic panel.
The first year less than one percent of the energy to move a typical train would come from lasers, perhaps we would never reach 50%, but every little bit helps. Basically each equipped car helps push and pull the train, allowing higher speed and fewer locomotives to pull a typical train. Are you sure we want million volt power lines that could fall on the tracks or a train? Clearly we can have enough power for the lasers and a bit to spare for towns along the track. Neil; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Aaron Allen [Air'n Al'ln] on November 21, 2009 at 8:15pm: Hi Neil: Years ago, the Great Northern and the Italian State Railways actually built 3-phase plant! Two
phases were contacted above the train with 2 trolley poles of a 'split-center' pantograph, and the third
phase was connected to the rails [and kept grounded], a sort of 3-wire 'Delta' arrangement? In both sys-
tems, it worked well [because of the mountainous routes on both roads] but later redesign and improve-
ment of singlephase 25KV won out based upon plant construction and maint. costs...Present 11KV-?
SP power, run thru modern rectifiers to DC motors or SP-3Phase converters to 3phase traction motors
seem to be where we're at now...If a dedicated route [no freights, etc.], I like the idea of going to 5' [Rus-
sian], 5' 3" [Irish and Indian] or even 6' [Spanish] gauge for improved stability and the capability of using wider cars...Aaron Allen...; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by neil cox on November 24, 2009 at 7:38am: Most everything about 3 phase has been known for almost a century, but coal powered most trains until about 1950 when there was a rapid transition to diesel. Last year diesel fuel was too expensive, so some railroad companies are experimenting with electric trains again. I worked for General Electric in Erie, Pa. where they built at least 100 diesel electric locomotives about 50 years ago. They used a diesel powered electric generator in the locomotive to produce electricity to drive traction motors, much like some hybrid cars do now. Neil; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by SJC on November 22, 2009 at 7:28am: We COULD have electric rail, but the costs over the short run would be huge. This is why we have made investments every year for more than 100 years. The decisions that the private and public sectors have made may not have been the best, but we have what we have. Considering the state of the situation at present, it may be more realistic to go with what we have and make as many improvements that we can afford to do over time.; ▶ Reply to This