OEM Pick ups
We need to convert the US Gasoline Fleet over to Natural Gas. We need to be able to buy OEM CNG cars and trucks that are worth buying while simultaniously having a place to fill the tanks. We need the chicken and the egg @ the same time.
I live in Glenwood Springs, CO., which is on the edge of the Piceance Basin. The Piceance Basin was said to be the "Saudi Arabia" of natural gas about 3-4 years ago. Well, with the new fracing technology there seems to be new supplies (new Saudi Arabia's) of natural gas everywhere. We have all the major energy companies drilling and developing their properties, without a natural gas vehicle in site. There are no CNG filing stations between Denver and Salt Lake City. It's the Chicken and Egg problem.
Our idea to get this jump started is to come up with orders for 1000 pick-ups that run on CNG, with specifications that make sense. (See the order form attached below) Briefly the specs would be bi-fuel, 350 mile range on CNG, 200 mile range on gasoline, and the CNG tanks located in such a manner as to leave the pick-up bed unobstructed. The conversions available today do not achieve all the above goals, which are necessary to make these CNG pick-ups marketable on a wide scale. With 1000 orders out of a relatively small area (150,000 people) we are hoping to get the attention of the OEM's, at least one, to build CNG pick-ups that make sense, so they can be marketed on a mass scale and the country is off and running. The key is to get the attention of the OEM's that this is how the country wants to go. If anyone out there wants to persue this idea in your area, have at it. The bigger the splash, the better. If we can get the vehcles coming, the filing stations will come also. Talking with several different businessmen around, there seems to be money and a desire to do the stations if there is a plan to get vehicles.
That's the idea!! Your comments and orders are welcome!!
Thanks
slowell@sopris.net
I live in Glenwood Springs, CO., which is on the edge of the Piceance Basin. The Piceance Basin was said to be the "Saudi Arabia" of natural gas about 3-4 years ago. Well, with the new fracing technology there seems to be new supplies (new Saudi Arabia's) of natural gas everywhere. We have all the major energy companies drilling and developing their properties, without a natural gas vehicle in site. There are no CNG filing stations between Denver and Salt Lake City. It's the Chicken and Egg problem.
Our idea to get this jump started is to come up with orders for 1000 pick-ups that run on CNG, with specifications that make sense. (See the order form attached below) Briefly the specs would be bi-fuel, 350 mile range on CNG, 200 mile range on gasoline, and the CNG tanks located in such a manner as to leave the pick-up bed unobstructed. The conversions available today do not achieve all the above goals, which are necessary to make these CNG pick-ups marketable on a wide scale. With 1000 orders out of a relatively small area (150,000 people) we are hoping to get the attention of the OEM's, at least one, to build CNG pick-ups that make sense, so they can be marketed on a mass scale and the country is off and running. The key is to get the attention of the OEM's that this is how the country wants to go. If anyone out there wants to persue this idea in your area, have at it. The bigger the splash, the better. If we can get the vehcles coming, the filing stations will come also. Talking with several different businessmen around, there seems to be money and a desire to do the stations if there is a plan to get vehicles.
That's the idea!! Your comments and orders are welcome!!
Thanks
slowell@sopris.net
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Spec-Order sheet 10-27-09.docx, 477 KB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Frank on -
In addition to trying to buy OEM CNG cars and trucks, another option worth considering is diesel-CNG dual fuel conversion. One universal, aftermarket system is Technocarb's EcoDiesel System, which can be retrofitted to ANY diesel engine. Depending upon the CNG cylinder(s) selected and the local labor rate, a diesel-CNG system can be typically installed for $5000 - $9000. Commercial vehicles that use a lot of fuel can have quick payback even without government subsidies or grants. Promoting these systems would be an ideal way for gas utilities to provide the basic market for a public refueling station.
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Permalink Reply by Sandy Lowell on -
Frank,
I went on the web and read all about this. I actually have a Duramax PU that I could convert, but I can't get it to pencil with the following parameters. Diesel-$3.00/gallon: CNG-$2.00/gallon: 5-1 burn ratio diesel to CNG: Increased diesel mileage @ 10-25%. Break even with no parts or install price is ~ 20% increase in diesel mileage. The diesel and CNG costs are my local rate. What do you think?
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Permalink Reply by Frank
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With those parameters, I would have to agree that you will have a very poor payback, even without knowing your annual mileage. However, CNG can be used in a higher substitution rate than propane because of its higher critical compression ratio. I've created a Diesel Dual Fuel Payback spreadsheet (look for downloads) that you can use for your calculations.
Although there is a slight increase in thermodynamic efficiency with a diesel dual fuel system, you can conservatively estimate alternative fuel use on an energy substitution basis. Universal diesel-CNG systems can typically replace up to 40% of diesel fuel energy and probably around 44-45% with some R&D on a dyno.
CNG is priced in terms of GGE. Your price of $2.00/GGE probably contains a lot of O&M costs and the wholesale price of natural gas is significantly less. As of December 2, the price at the Henry Hub was $4.67/MMBTU ($5.14/MMBTU LHV). If GGE contains 115,400 BTU/gal LHV, the wholesale price becomes $0.59/GGE. If you were in Salt Lake City, the price of CNG is around $0.93-$1.00/GGE. With a larger user base (as you were trying to achieve), the O&M price becomes a smaller percentage of the total price due to economies of scale.
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