Q; WHAT HAPPENS WHEN A PLANET WITH 7 BILLION PEOPLE ON IT CAN ONLY SUUPORT 2 BILLION? A; 5 BILLION HAVE TO GET OFF

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Permalink Reply by Ron Everitt on August 10, 2009 at 6:21pm

I guess you will have to explain how the Q&A title relates to the article for those of us with disabled systems,thank you

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Permalink Reply by neil cox on August 11, 2009 at 4:31am

My guess is we are getting global cooling since about 2002, but scarcely anyone is figuring how we will deal with a new ice age. Any kind of change produces at least minor security issues. Mostly, climate change affects me, as we are foolishly depressing the world ecconomy by diverting huge amounts of money to projects related to global warming. Climate change occurs locally. There is little honest evidence that carbon dioxide has been anything but a minor factor in recent centuries. Some of the climate change efforts help us stop using foreign oil. Using foreign oil is a clear and near term danger. Sorry I rarely take the risk of opening attachments. You could give us a brief or even a long summary of what you think is good in the NY Times article. Neil

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Permalink Reply by mustang190 on August 11, 2009 at 10:48pm

Man made"Climate Change"is a hoax!
Where the New York Times offices are today was once a sheet of ice and before that there were dinosoars roaming around! The Sun controls the Earths climate not puney little man! We can quit using all the oil tomorrow but the Chinese and and India and other developing countries will not quit and they have little or no enviromental laws. But I notice that none of you will say a word about them, it's always Americas fault.

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Permalink Reply by Ronnie Elliott on August 15, 2009 at 11:08am

Well GLOBAL WARMING IS A HOAX !That is a big LIE to get more money from the worlds workers and they want to tax every thing with this stupid carbon tax like that is goint to help all it will be Helping is the RICH TO GET RICHER !They want to control the whole World and give FALSE FLAGS LIKE THIS ! I Don't buy into their LIES & DECIEPT ANYMORE; THEIR PAID FOR MEDIA TRYING TO BRAINWASH SOCIETY SO THEY ARE STUPID AND WILL BELIEVE ALL THIS CRAP ! I SAY YOU NEED TO WAKE THE F UP AMERICA ! THEIR IS NO GLOBAL WARMING THEIR IS PLENTY OF PROBLEMS IN THE WORLD,HOWEVER GLOBAL WARMING IS FROM SUN SPOTS AND YOU NEED TO LOOK AT HISTORY TO SEE THAT WE AREN'T ANY HOTTER THAN IT HAS BEEN IN THE 1400 OR OTHER TIMES THAT WE HAD MORE SUN SPOTS! IF YOU THINK THIS THEN YOU PROBALY ARE ALREADY BRAINWASHED BY MEDIA ! JUST LIKE THEIR PAID FOR MEDIA COVERAGE OF 9/11 THAT IS A LIE AND THEY THINK ALL THESE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD ARE STUPID,LIKE ALL PLANS IT DIDN'T WORK LIKE THEY THOUGHT AND PEOPLE WEREN'T AS BLIND AND STUPID AS THEY THOUGHT ! THAT WAS A PLANNED DEMOLITION WITH MILITARY GRAD EXPLOSIVES OF THOSE 3 BUILDINGS,PLUS THEIR WAS NO AIRPLANE THAT HIT THE PENTAGON AND 100'S OF THOUSANDS WANT THE TRUTH INSTEAD OF THEIR LIES !!! THEIR ARE PEOPLE THAT CAN PROVE 9/11 WAS A FALSE FLAG TO GET BUSHES PLAN (PATRIOT ACT ) TO TAKE OVER AMERICA AND GIVE US OVER TO THE ONE WORLD GOVERMENT & ONE WORLD CURRENCY AND THEY KEEP ALL YOU DUMMIES BELIEVING THEM WITH ALL THE LIES AND BRAINWASHING ! THAT WAS THE SAME THING HITLER DID TO HIS PEOPLE AND THEN OBAMA BACKED HIM UP AND KEPT THE PATRIOT ACT AND IS FORMING HIS ON POLICE OR MILITARY JUST LIKE HITLER DID PLUS THEY ARE SOCIALIST,FASCIST,&COMMUNIST,THEY ARE PUPPETS FOR THE SHADOW GOVERMENT,WHICH IS THE WORLD BANKING CARTEL,THE BILDERBERG GROUP,THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK THE CENTRAL BANK.ITS ALL CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT TREASON,JUST LIKE OBAMA ISN'T EVEN A LEGAL PRESIDENT BECAUSE HE WASNT A LEGAL CITIZEN OF THE USA..WHICH MAKES ALL OUR SOLIDERS TERRORIST ALSO ! SO WHEN AND IF YOU WATCH TV AN READ CERTIAN ARTICLES BE SURE OF THE INFO IN THEM BEING TRUE AND NOT ONE SIDED,JUST A PLANE
ALL THE bILLS AND ACTS ARE BEING DONE TO TRY AND1 BANKRUPT AMERICA! THE FEDERAL RESERVE HAS BEEN PRINTING FIAT MONEY FOR YEARS,THEY HAVE STOLEN ALL OF AMERICAS GOLD AND SILVER AND WANT LET THE FEDERAL GOVT.LOOK AT THEIR RECORDS WHEN THEY LOOS OVER A TRILLION DOLLARS OF OUT TAX DOLLARS! THIS IS TREASON TO GIVE OUR COUNTRY OVER TO THESE PEOPLE WHETHER THEY ARE IN BANKING,OR ANOTHER COUNTRIES PLANSFOR THIS ONE WORLD GOVT.JUST LIKE ANOTHER THING THEY DID BACK IN THE 1930'S TO HURT AMERICA AND HAVE US USE ALL THESE DEADLY CHEMICALS,KEEP USING GAS,KEEP TOBBACO ,LIQUOR IND'S. & MED'S MANUFACTURING ,GAS,OIL IMPORTS,,SO THEY COULD KILL US WITH THESE THINGS INSTEAD OF LETTING US HAVE HEMP LEGAL THEN THEY SPEND BILLIONS ON KEEPING IT ILLEGAL WHEN IT IS BETTER THAN WOOD FOR PULP,AN COTTON FOR FIBERS,IT PRODUSE BETTER OIL,CLEAN BURNING WITH NO CARBON !,SO WHY DID THEY DO THAT WHEN OUR FOREFATHERS GREW IT AND IT'S BEEN A MAJOR CROP IN THE WORLD TRADE FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS! YET THEY USED THEIR POWER & MONEY TO KEEP IT ILLEGAL AND MAKE US USE THEIR CHEMICALS THAT ARE TOXIC !duh wake the f___UP AMERICA,THEY DO KNOW HOW TO BRAINWASH & HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR DECADES!WE SHOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN USING WINDMILLS & NATURAL GAS ALONG WITH HEMP FOR FUEL AND SUGAR CAINE,AND OTHER NATURAL PLANTS THAT CAN BE USED FOR FUEL ! DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMON SCENCE LEFT ? ARE YOU REALLY AN AMERICAN ? CANNT YOU SEE ALL THIS IS BEING DONE TO DESTROY AMERICA ! IT OK TO GO GREEN AND USE OUR NATURAL RESOURCES,YET BE CAREFUL OF WHAT YOU BELIEVE FROM THEM LOOK AT ALL THE ANGELS! ASK WHO PROFITS MOST? IS IT NEEDED AND IS THIS THE ONLY WAY? TERRORSTORM.COM POLICESTATE.COM THEOBAMADECEPTION.COM 911TRUTH.COM GO SEE FOR YOURSELF AND USE LOGIC AND COMMON SCENCE !

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Permalink Reply by neil cox on September 15, 2009 at 5:54pm

Hi Ronnie: Most of what you type is sort of true, but exaggerated. Except for a few who successfully speculate in carbon credits, most of the rich will get poorer along with most everyone else, as a result of carbon credits. What do you mean by false flags?
Typically there are multiple ways that may accomplish a goal, but multiple approaches are often best, certainly better than rejecting all of the approaches one at a time. Before hemp was illegal, it was rarely used to make paper or fuel, so my guess it is only a moderately useful plant = You should ask who will profit most from legalizing marijuana? The web sites you mentioned are just as dishonest as the mainstream media = they just have a different spin. I agree there are few good sources of information, but simple logic will often lead us astray. You did make two positive suggestions = Get more energy from wind and natural gas. In my opinion, only algae in transparent pipes, is a good bio solution to our troubles. Please try to find more moderate views and use capitals much less. Neil

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Permalink Reply by Debra Goldenberg on September 16, 2009 at 1:35pm

Hi Ronnie,

Just ONE comment. Scence is spelled with and i, SCIENCE!! Common sense, lol. Patrick Henry? What did he say anyway, I'll look it up on Google, i am sure he has a page for himself there, right?

Live Free Or Die!! Blessings,

Debra S Goldenberg
Castro Valley, CA 94546
(phone number not provided) try the ATT Real Yellow Pages (my former employer, let your fingers do the walking, lol)

Cheers!

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Permalink Reply by Tom Bailey on August 29, 2009 at 4:54am

Hey gang:
I was born and raised in the North Eastern states. Having family still in those spots and listening to the visible changes they are seeing yearly, I have to mind that climate is changing. I see the clips showing that the Ice caps are melting extremely fast.
I feel many things contribute to the heath of our planet. I would like to help ensure we are not the major contibutor of this change.

Will history be written of the human species?
“They went on playing politics until their world collapsed around them. With all their genius, with all their skill, they ran out of or polluted the air, food and water”, They had an abundance of ideas but allowed them to be extinguished by lack of action, negative scrutiny or stalled in politics.
They did not truly act on foresight.
~Part of U Thant, speech, 1970

Best; Tom

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Permalink Reply by RWC1972 on September 15, 2009 at 1:12pm

I say we start culling the herd by getting rid of people who type in all caps.

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Permalink Reply by Allenwrench on November 12, 2009 at 7:44am

Forget global warming. We got much bigger fish to fry in our little frying pan on earth.

Our world is upside down, when the right way to s sustainable future will bring our world down. The only thing to do to keep the Ponzi scheme going is to do just the opposite of prudent advice.

What would happen to our economy if we took the advice and did as this reworked 'victory' poster from WW II suggested?





IT'S NOT THAT SIMPLE TO DO A 180...Without compulsive spending and conspicuous consumption funded by unaffordable debt, we would fail as a country. Since our economy if fueled 70% by the consumer, we must stay in debt and consume by any means necessary to keep the Ponzi scheme from collapsing.

We must make shoddy products that self-destruct quickly - so new products are in constant demand to keep the workforce of drones working. All the while squandering natural resources, but we are increasing the business of the landfills.

We must not grow our own food. We must buy poisonous food from chemical laden farms. Our concrete jungles could never hope to allow anything else from their inhabitants.





Would you rather eat an embalmed potato or a live potato? 'Green Giant' red potato vs home grown KB potato. Both stored for 7 months in my root cellar.

And we must squander fossil fuels as fast as possible to keep the economy booming. What would all the tourists traps from Las Vegas to Florida do without the travelers? And the multitude of business that depend on travel along the pilgrimage routes?

On an a more global level, lets say everyone becomes voluntary simplicity and frugal squirrel devotees. We recycle, reuse, repair and just say NO to buying more crap. If we stop buying all the stuff that America imports from China - who keeps the 1.3 billion plus people in China from starving, so they do not go back to old ways of trying to take over the world?

We can see we have created a time bomb. Even the highest level brainiac economists can't fix what ails us.

Our whole system is based on an unsustainable model that will eventually collapse no matter how much money that is printed up by the Fed. (...they don't even need to print money nowadays, all that needs to be done to create billions is to magnetize a silicon chip!)

Tony Benn's take on things:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnserZOf1-4&feature=related


Now, let's take a look at how our Ponzi schemed world was built...





We can see the population was pretty steady over the centuries. People lived within natures boundaries. They grew their food, burned wood for fuel and ate the game and fish nature provided...until the age of fossil fuels.

Whale oil or wood was the prevalent fuel up to that time. As whale oil was running out, coal and liquid coal (crude oil) came on board. Then petroleum / natural gas based fertilizers made cheap food possible.

Fossil fuels allowed people to move from an agrarian from of life to an urbanized city lifestyle that removed all the hard and dirty work of growing and producing one's own food. Fossil fusels also made possible many areas of life extending improvements to humans. And people spread to all corners of the planet and flourished...but by an artificial and non sustainable means.

What happens when something is running at an unsustainable pace?

It must slow down to a sustainable pace - if it is to keep moving forward steadily and sustainably.

It would be one thing if we all reverted back to rural living, burning trees for fuel and housing and living within our comfortable means allotted to us by nature, as our ancestors did back in the day. But seven billion people can't burn the trees!

When we live out of balance with natures intended means there is a price to pay to come back in balance with nature. And the price usually extracts pain from us in the adjustment process. Now renewable energy will replace some of fossil fuels benefit to mankind. But don't be under the delusion that they are a seamless and fungible replacement. There is NO replacement for crude

Even if we did find out how to burn water for energy, petrochemicals make up a large portion of crude's importance to mankind. Roughly 9% of every barrel of crude goes to petrochemical use.

If we stopped burning crude this instant, we would still suck the wells dry, albeit not as quickly, just from petrochemical use.

So even if we all stop driving, we will just be postponing the inevitable depletion of crude oil.

A partial list of products made from crude:

Solvents Diesel Motor Oil Bearing Grease
Ink Floor Wax Ballpoint Pens Football Cleats
Upholstery Sweaters Boats Insecticides
Bicycle Tires Sports Car Bodies Nail Polish Fishing lures
Dresses Tires Golf Bags Perfumes
Cassettes Dishwasher Tool Boxes Shoe Polish
Motorcycle Helmet Caulking Petroleum Jelly Transparent Tape
CD Player Faucet Washers Antiseptics Clothesline
Curtains Food Preservatives Basketballs Soap
Vitamin Capsules Antihistamines Purses Shoes
Dashboards Cortisone Deodorant Footballs
Putty Dyes Panty Hose Refrigerant
Percolators Life Jackets Rubbing Alcohol Linings
Skis TV Cabinets Shag Rugs Electrician's Tape
Tool Racks Car Battery Cases Epoxy Paint
Mops Slacks Insect Repellent Oil Filters
Umbrellas Yarn Fertilizers Hair Coloring
Roofing Toilet Seats Fishing Rods Lipstick
Denture Adhesive Linoleum Ice Cube Trays Synthetic Rubber
Speakers Plastic Wood Electric Blankets Glycerin
Tennis Rackets Rubber Cement Fishing Boots Dice
Nylon Rope Candles Trash Bags House Paint
Water Pipes Hand Lotion Roller Skates Surf Boards
Shampoo Wheels Paint Rollers Shower Curtains
Guitar Strings Luggage Aspirin Safety Glasses
Antifreeze Football Helmets Awnings Eyeglasses
Clothes Toothbrushes Ice Chests Footballs
Combs CD's Paint Brushes Detergents
Vaporizers Balloons Sun Glasses Tents
Heart Valves Crayons Parachutes Telephones
Enamel Pillows Dishes Cameras
Anesthetics Artificial Turf Artificial limbs Bandages
Dentures Model Cars Folding Doors Hair Curlers
Cold cream Movie film Soft Contact lenses Drinking Cups
Fan Belts Car Enamel Shaving Cream Ammonia
Refrigerators Golf Balls Toothpaste Gasoline

From this list we can see that we are massively depend on crude for our non sustainable lifestyle.

It has been estimated that for the earth to sustainably support its population without fossil fuels a 90% dieoff must occur. I don't know if that is the right figure, but I do know humans could not live as they do unless it was funded by artificial means via fossil fuels.

http://dieoff.org/

So if this dieoff happens, of course there will be great amounts of pain in the world. But it is natures intended balancing act.

It also reminds us that nature does not bow to humans - it is humans that always bow to nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrying_capacity

One last tidbit for you guys to chew on...

"Kaiser forecast that the yearly family premium for health insurance could reach $30,803.00 in ten years if the 8.7% annual increase of the previous 10 years were to continue."

http://www.kff.org/pullingittogether/091509_altman.cfm

And let's go out a further 10 years. Now, the average premium is $70,939.00 per year at an 8.7% annual increase.

http://www.amazon.com/Super-Size-Me-John-Banzhaf/dp/B0002OXVBO

Highly recommended. Get it from your library.

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