So Where's Compressed Natural Gas for Vehicles in the "Package"? Not there!!!

From the email I just received...

Army!

The battle for the stimulus package is over and – thanks to you – we were very successful on the wind side of the Pickens Plan.

Here is the list of items which are included in the stimulus package:

A 3-year Production Tax Credit (PTC) extension through the end of 2012
An option to elect a 30% Investment Tax Credit (ITC) in place of the PTC
An option to convert the Investment Tax Credit into a grant for projects placed in service in 2009, or 2010, or placed in service before 2013 provided construction begins in 2009 or 2010
A new $6 billion Department of Energy renewable energy and transmission loan guarantee program, which should fund around $60 billion in principal amount of guaranteed loans
Authority for the Western Area Power Administration to borrow up to $3.25 billion from the Treasury to build renewable transmission lines in the western United States, including western Texas

And the Government is going to buy new vehicles for their Motor Pool.

What energy source are they going to run on? Anyone? Wind? Solar?

So the "Wind" side won...BFD!

I thought this was about getting Trucks and Cars running on CNG?

This is a LOSS for the Natural Gas Option. Period.

In my opinion.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by neil cox on February 18, 2009 at 10:24pm

I don't think wind or solar are seriously being considered to power vehicles, except there will be some electric vehicles and plug in hybrids. CNG was mentioned, so I think there will be some action on CNG. Neil

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Permalink Reply by Auntie Tutu on February 19, 2009 at 1:08am

If I can find an electric car sooner and cheaper than the Chevy BVolt I am READY to plug it into the existing PV solar system on my house---during the day there is lots of exctra power coming in, I notice. And in Hawaii there is a firm setting up to install charging stations already.

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Permalink Reply by Oscar on February 27, 2009 at 11:27pm

It is there. $2000 credit for the home refueling appliance (Phill) and 50% credit up to $50,000 for larger home units, fleet and public fueling.

Vehicles have a pass on sales tax and though vague there is a $4000 credit for alternate fuel vehicles. There are production limits on vehicles though and you need to check with the dealer for the status of the credit.

http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2009/02/26/26greenwire-obama-seeks-rep...

This article ought to get the bench sitters moving. Gas is going up.

Vote with your wallet or you may be caught with your pants around your ankles.

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Permalink Reply by Dennis Logan on February 28, 2009 at 8:42am

OK, so name me ONE Car Manufacturer that is offering a CNG vehicle for purchase by the private citizen?

And where are the fueling stations?

So all the credits, rebates, etc are a FRAUD on the American Taxpayer.

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time. Abraham Lincoln, (attributed)
16th president of US (1809 - 1865)

FUBAR!!!

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Permalink Reply by Oscar on February 28, 2009 at 5:24pm

Dennis,

Honda Motors has been building CNG cars in the US for 11 years. That is one. The engine manufacturers of large engines are Cummins, John Deere, Westport, and others. Other car mfgs are siting in the wings waiting to see the market develop so they are not at risk.

You want to know where there is a public fueling station? go to www.cngprices.com They have an interactive map that shows locations and prices for the US and several other countries. Zoom in to your area and see what is the nearest.
There are large empty areas but we have 14 public stations here in WI.

Vote with your wallet or nothing will happen.

With the new restrictions and incentive removals for the US oil industry I will venture to say the price of oil will be rising quite soon.

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Permalink Reply by Dennis Logan on February 28, 2009 at 5:59pm

Researched:

1) One Honda model found, starting price, ~25K.
2) fuel mileage. 24/36
3) one filling station in Austin, Texas
4) Phill @ home installed is 100lbs, needing all permits, etc.

http://foxservice.com/kb/article-82.html?PHPSESSID=84ac1c0626311724...

5) How long does Phill take to fill a vehicle?
On average it will take approximately 4 hours to replenish the fuel consumed in 80 km / 50 miles of driving based on a vehicle consumption rate of 8 liters per 100 km or 30 mpg ( US).

4 hours to fill up for 50 miles of driving? FOUR HOURS???

No Thanks. Time is Money, even at $4 or $5 a gallon.

Sticking with my 2007 Camry LE 4 cylinder. Starting price $19,145 21/31 mileage. Fills up in 10 minutes.

Thank You.

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Permalink Reply by Oscar on March 1, 2009 at 10:43am

Sorry to hear that you only have one refueling point in your area.

Your research missed the 09 Impala and the 09 Focus.

The Phill is a time fill designed for commuters. It is slow because the standards limit NG compression to 50 scf/hr for indoor installations and that is what the Phill will compress. If the standard allowed more, I am sure Fuel Maker would have designed it with more capacity. Yes there is an up-front expense and yes it weighs 100lbs. What do you think it should weigh? Cost? At current gasoline prices it is about a breakeven proposition. Double the gasoline and the ROI is 3 x faster... etc.

I know a guy that regularly gets 300 miles a tank with a GX. He got 380 miles on a trip with conservative driving habits. That is with less than $8 for the fuel. BTW he also drives a NEV for his in-town commute and around town for errands etc. He gets about 50 miles on a $1 charge and is looking at a solar roof panel to extend the range of the NEV.

If the Phill will not fulfill your needs there are other sytems available. They just cannot be installed indoors. However they do provide remote fueling accessories that can be mounted in the garage.

I am sure you are satisfied with your current circumstances and will remain satisfied no matter what the cost of oil is. But for me it is energy independence and national security and the environment.(and the low cost of alternate energies)

We all vote with our wallet. I drive a 06 F150 bi-fuel so if I run out of NG on a trip it will switch automatically to gasoline. Then I can go anywhere and refuel when I find a station or get back home. I also use evacuated tube solar hot water to heat the house and domestic hot water and am looking at solar PV for the house.

What have you been doing in trying to improve our world? Doing nothing and b******* about what is possible because it isn't main stream is a poor attitude to carry around.

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Permalink Reply by SJC on April 5, 2009 at 12:33pm

You can convert a pickup to NG for under $10k. It would be $40k to convert it to EV and then you have much less range. NG conversion can give you 100 mile range and if dual fuel, you can run on gasoline 300 more miles if you need to. EV conversion might get you 50 miles and 5 hours of recharging, not a good option.

I agree that it is good for the individual to do what they can, but there is strength in numbers. There is more good done if 1 million people can do 1% than one person doing 100%. Everything counts towards getting us where we need to go. Considering we are more than 30 years late starting, getting with it is more important than ever.