Pickens Plan District Group MN-01

Comment

Comment by Oscar on May 18, 2009 at 9:24pm

A dedicated CNG vehicle is great but the situation is for commuters. Conversion to bi-fuel is the clear ticket if you need to get cross country. There are no certified conversion kits for older vehicles but you could get by on a grandfather once the vehicle is beyond useful life. In other words over 10 years old or over 100k miles.

The one thing I didn't mention is the lack of carbon using CNG makes the engine lasts longer. Carbon in the oil acts as an abrasive. Also, now that I'm going down that road. CNG is not a liquid so it doesn't wash the lubrication from the cylinder walls, extending engine life also.

A diesel using a 25% injection you have to keep in mind that 75% is still diesel and expensive. If you need the grunt tow load capacity a diesel with CNG is perfect. I read about a guy that bumped the mix up to 50-50. He said he could go to the drag strip with it. He dialed it back down but just had to see what it would be like.

Nuclear? Hmmm.... My understanding is the waste is still like 500 degrees. I don't see why the lower grade spent fuel couldn't be used in some way before requiring reprocessing. Reprocessing apparently is not economically feasible. Most likely because we have had cheap oil for so many years. I guess as it is now, the storage at yucca mountain (even though it hasn't actually happened yet and may never) is a mistake. There has to be a way to use the waste on-site. Maybe they could provide hot water to an entire community. The cooling water used now just goes down the river. At prairie island the river doesn't freeze over anymore. Talk about changing the ecology of the river.

Warren I have 2 companies to keep up with. One that I want to do (CNG) and the other to put food on the table.

Comment by Warren Kemplin on May 18, 2009 at 7:57am

Oscar, you know your stuff. Perhaps you need to be the District Leader.

Looking at this in a practicle view converting a used gasoline engine could be a bag of worms. Would you agree? It would be best to purchase a CNG manufactured automobile. For short hauls and in town travel it would work today
but as you say, we need infrastructure.

Lookign at converting a diesel engine might be more practicle if the cost of investment pays a return greater then equal to cost. Also converting a power plant might be more practicle too. Better yet, building both new makes a whole lot of sense.

What is your view on nuclear energy, assuming the storage issues get resolved?

Warren

Comment by Oscar on May 17, 2009 at 8:00pm

Maybe I was a little long winded. It must be the clear mind thing.

Comment by Oscar on May 17, 2009 at 7:56pm

The formula for GGE (gasoline gallons equivalent) is arrived at by adding all the therm charges on your gas bill. The charges are split up into about 3 or 4 categories. Anyway, when you get the total, multiply it by 1.125. At my house CNG is $0.764 That was calculated off my April bill. Xcel Energy, Wabasha,MN. Regular gasoline is around 114,000btu but the ethanol added brings the btu content down to about 1125,000. A therm is 100,000btu.

The mileage of the vehicle is a whole other can. The Honda Civic GX was designed for CNG and has a 12.5/1 compression ratio and can get 35-40mpgge. It utilizes the 130 octane in CNG. The converted vehicles running engines designed for gasoline typically have 9/1 or 10/1 compression. (the old muscle cars ran high comp) The loss of efficiency due to the lower compression is about 2-3%. Then add the additional weight of the tank and components for the CNG at an average of 150 pounds. GM stated at the MREA energy fair many years ago that every 100 pounds affects the mileage 1 mpg.. So you can see that 2-3% + 1.5 mpg and you are probably losing about 8% mileage with gasoline designed engines. (I haven't actually calculated that to be precise but feel it is pretty close. Differing engines = differing economies.) The up side of the gasoline engine is that it is (usually) converted to a bi-fuel state so you can run on CNG but if you take a trip and can't refuel, when the CNG gets low it will automatically switch over to gasoline and you can keep going. The lack of infrastructure makes a bi-fuel shine. Diesels can be converted to dual fuel operation which is an injection of CNG with the diesel. It cleans up the emmissions, increases HP and lowers operation costs.

I have been interested in and studying these topics for years. That is why I became a Fuel Maker dealer before the masses and TBP came onto the scene, Sure am glad to see everyone waking up. I sometimes get rally irate over the mis-informationout there. Much of it is spread by alternative goals.

This summer (August? after the recess?) congress will be debating CNG proposed legislation that is before them. This is possibly the piece that brings CNG mainstream. The incentives for CNG vehicles (dedicated CNG and converted vehicles) will (hopefully) get the much needed tax credits and streamline the EPA regulations toward CNG.

It is all crystal clear after a few days in the woods collecting ramps and morels. A refreshed mind and tired legs.

Comment by Warren Kemplin on May 16, 2009 at 4:21pm

Hi Oscar, I got my info from a PP District Leader ffrom Texas who claimed to be a consultant. So, it's not that high? Is there a conversion table I could look at to convert gasoline mpg to NG mpg?

No doubt there is a ton of mis-information circulating. We need to get the truth out.

Warren

Comment by Oscar on May 15, 2009 at 7:27pm

Codi, Most estimates seem to be in the 500 trillion cubic feet of natural gas available. (not necessarly producible at this point). I saw one estimate of 117,000 trillion cubic feet. The latest theory of how oil is made is the decayed bodies of methanogens. The anerobic bacteria that makes methane. (natural gas) So as I say NG is older than oil and newer than compost. (NG is in a cow's gut) Yup, the the same bacteria.

Did you know that methane (NG) is a greenhouse gas? It is 20x less a greenhouse gas after it is burned. I say let's burn all we can.

Now lets talk about the future of renewable and sustainable natural gas. There is a college course (2year) for construction, technology and operations available at the Mid-States Technical College in Wisconsin Rapids, WI. There is a real surge of sustainable bio-digestion in landfill, sewage treatment, breweries, farms... and more. Many farms have been in operation with digesters for years. No one seems to talk about that though. Farms with digesters are littered all over the mid-west and beyond. A really interesting one is www.afuturefarm.com (or it might be .org) and it is not too far from us. Baldwin, WI

Comment by Oscar on May 15, 2009 at 7:04pm

Hey Warren, Where did you get a $20k price tag from? The Phill may run $6k on the high side installed, and that is before the $2k tax credit. Product is $4500 less credit = $2500.

Gasoline is $2.25 today in MN and natural gas at my house is $0.764 gge.

The conversion of the vehicle is from about $6k and up depending on many variables. There is currently legislation proposed and in congress (but won't likely be debated till after summer vacation) that deals with the vehicle incentives.

There is also the Honda Civic GX option. New at about $25k and used vehicles too. The book value of CNG vehicles is better than most others also. For the closest CNG vehicles one would have to look at Motorwerks in La Crosse. Chris Schneider is a friend and you'll have a really hard time finding a greener person. Many other brand vehicles are on the verge of coming to market.

So what do you all think? Will we see $2.50 gasoline this summer?

Comment by Warren Kemplin on April 30, 2009 at 12:46pm

Agree. I did check into what it would cost to convert an automobile and install a CNG device in the home. It was around $20k. It's not in the budget for the average person.

Comment by Lance Schafhausen on April 30, 2009 at 10:50am

I just read that article! It seems our energy secretary is not all too excited about CNG as a vehicle fuel. Lets show him he's wrong!

Comment by Codi Prachar on April 30, 2009 at 10:43am

A major article in the Wall Street Journal echoes what T. Boone Pickens has been saying for nearly a year: There is enough natural gas under the continental United States to serve all of our needs for upwards of 100 years.

Check out the Daily PIckens, where you can read full the article.

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