Last Conversation with Sen Specter's Staff
The following is a conversation I had with Dr. Paul Werbos who is a fellow attached to Senator Specter's staff from the National Science Foundation. His responses are inter mingled with the body of the e-mail that I had sent to him last friday in regards to the up comming vote in the senate on the climate bill passed by the house of rep's.
>> P. Werbos speaking
Good morning, Robert!
When Senator Specter announced that he was changing parties, James Decker informed us that he would be leaving this office.
At this point, Adam Tarr and I are the climate and energy team here.
So here are my thoughts in response to your email…
P. Werbos speaking <<
>> R. Ware Speaking
From: Robert Ware [mailto:jehkque@yahoo.com]
Dear Gentlemen:
With pending legislation having passed the house and is before the senate for consideration, I believe it is important for this nation's future that I again bring forth these issues. I will make effort to be as thorough as possible in outlining the infrastructure items and courses of action that will be required for this nation to develop energy independence while simultaneously reducing carbon dioxide emissions.
R. Ware speaking <<
>> P. Werbos speaking
I certainly agree that energy independence is a key priority. And there is more we should do to advance it beyond what is already in the House bill.
P. Werbos speaking <<
>> R. Ware Speaking
First I would like to redress the issue of money for research into conversion of Algae into bio-crude or directly into bio-fuels in the diesel hydrocarbon range. This I brought forth with Dr. Werbos in our March meeting but due to delays by Changing World Technologies, Inc. to relay information to your office difficulties occurred in securing direct funding for such a project in the most recent budget.
R. Ware speaking <<
>> P. Werbos speaking
We did not receive an earmark request from them in time for this year’s budget cycle. But the cycle keeps on, every year (though my fellowship here is only for one year).
It is always competitive – there are many good ideas coming from Pennsylvania. But new ways to make car fuel from domestic resources in Pennsylvania are certainly one
of the most important areas.
P. Werbos speaking <<
>> R. Ware Speaking
A recent web search yielded the following web address that may be of interest as it appears to be similar to the idea I have posed.
http://earth2tech.com/2008/09/03/algae-to-kerosene-jet-fuel-snags-3m/
R. Ware speaking <<
>> P. Werbos speaking
I will check that out. But in general – there are a lot of groups (new companies and old) and a lot of credible new ideas
for how to use algae to make fuel. Because people are exploring different possibilities, and we don’t know which will turn out to be the best,
we do need to fund a diversity of approaches at an exploratory level, in addition to whatever else we do. Whether CWT is one of those which ought to
funded ASAP, I do not know… but maybe. It does sound like a credible technology, and it’s hard for anyone to know for sure at this early stage.
In an ideal world, maybe that would be enough by itself to say it should be funded.
P. Werbos speaking <<
>> R. Ware Speaking
I have no doubt that it would be possible to use algae to produce bio-crude or other oil products that could effectively replace petroleum crude products currently used throughout the world. The main obstacle that is present at this time is having a sufficient supply of algae to achieve commercial viability of such conversions. The significance of this is monumental and research sources are available to show the feasibility of algae can function with flue gas carbon sequestration. I would go so far as to say that this practice would be far better than Geo-sequestration.
R. Ware speaking <<
>> P. Werbos speaking
You say a lot in these four sentences.
I agree 300% with your last sentence. Until and unless the US stops using any oil which comes from holes in the ground, making oil from algae is a lot
better than geological sequestration. It certainly has more value for national security! And there is no risk of zingers coming in that weren’t part of the game plan.
(With geological sequestration, there are possibilities of leakage and of stimulating microorganisms called archaea to do things we might not like.)
What’s more, I haven’t heard of any serious version of CCS (capture, concentration and geosequestration) that would cost less than $60 per ton of CO2.
The most solid estimates I have heard run at about $90 per ton. Cheaper is better… especially when a lot of folks don’t want to pay the higher price tag.
I don’t know whether the main obstacle is the supply of algae, exactly. We can grow all the algae we want. The cost and availability of the technology to grow the algae is one of the key
challenges here… but the challenge of getting favorable market conditions and funding for the technology is also a key challenge.
P. Werbos speaking <<
>> R. Ware Speaking
Through implementing use of algae for sequestration of carbon dioxide emissions in large scale would yield sufficient algae resources for use to produce commercially viable bio-crude or bio-fuel products. This in turn enables a reduction in use of petroleum crude for transportation energy, reducing this nation's dependence upon imported crude oil. This demonstrates how curbing green house gases can effectively apply to this nation moving towards sustainable energy independence.
R. Ware speaking <<
>> P. Werbos speaking
This would certainly be a great direction to move in, as fast as we reasonably can.
P. Werbos speaking <<
>> R. Ware Speaking
Secondly, the use of algae for carbon sequestration involves photosynthesis by the alga plants to achieve growth and reproduction. Plant photosynthetic processes require water, carbon dioxide and sunlight to produce produce organic hydrocarbons. At issue would be the availability of water resources to sustain the production of bio-crude or bio-fuels at levels necessary to achieve and maintain energy independence.. This dictates that there is a need to achieve sustainable water resources throughout this nation in support of developing energy independence and reduction of greenhouse gas emissions.
R. Ware speaking <<
>> P. Werbos speaking
Water supplies – especially freshwater – are certainly a key challenge at the global level. Many of the top futurists believe that water is second only to energy/environment. And water is coupled with energy,
to be sure.
But the details are tricky. Many of the people growing algae, or making cement from flue gas, say that their technology INCREASES the supply of fresh water, instead of consuming it!
At a recent hearing on carbon capture and reuse (held by the energy subcommittee of the appropriations committee), the senator from Utah expressed great delight about the way that this
kind of new technology can CONSUME the kind of salty water they have in the Great Salt Lake, and output water which is much fresher (or easier to convert to fresh water). Of course, algae can grow in salt water.
They can also grow in wastewater. Of course, different technologies have different needs, and there are many different market segments in the US; Utah is not like the East Coast or like Kansas or like Illinois, when it comes to water use for energy. That’s one of the reasons why we need some diversity in the technologies we encourage.
P. Werbos speaking <<
>> R. Ware Speaking
In order to achieve sustainable water resources throughout this nation there is a need to effectively conserve water resources where possible and develop new water resources where needed. A national water storage and transfer system is an effective tool in accomplishing these objectives. Such a national system is an essential infrastructure to enabling this nation to achieve and maintain energy independence.
R. Ware speaking <<
>> P. Werbos speaking
In truth --- Adam has been taking the lead in water issues here. He and I would both agree that these are important issues… but he would have a better than I do about what specifically we
need to do in that sector right now. The Environment and Public Works Committee
http://epw.senate.gov/public/?CFID=6910436&CFTOKEN=82226938
has been discussing water a lot lately.
I am not sure how you would translate the general principles below into specific new directions or gaps in their discussions.
Best of luck,
Paul
=========================================================================================================
P. Werbos speaking <<
>> R. Ware Speaking
Why or how you might ask?
The reasons are evident when considering the use of plant material as a primary source for this nation achieving energy independence from biological facts. The inescapable need of water consumption in the photosynthetic process of plants.
Thirdly, A national water transfer and storage system would require significant energy resources in order to operate in it's intended capacity. Energy use for pumping in the collection, transfer and distribution of water resources would be substantial. This means that a national water system should have an associated energy supply system. The intended purpose of a national water system to effect the achievement and maintenance of energy independence and reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, dictates that such an energy supply system should also have such abilities. Leading to the indication that the energy supply system for a national water system derive primarily from clean, renewable energy sources.
Wind, solar and geothermal energy resources would be among the primary candidates to deliver clean, renewable energy to a national water transfer and storage system. Thus, any bill addressed by congress which seeks to reduce carbon emissions and/or establish energy independence for this nation should establish the frame work of infrastructures outlined in this e-mail.
1. Carbon dioxide sequestration through the use of algae on all types of industrial plants that are major emitters of carbon dioxide.
2. The formation of a national water transfer and storage infrastructure that has an ability to attain new water resources from ocean waters or sustainable inland salt water sources.
3. The development of significant wind, solar and/or geothermal derived electrical generating infrastructures.
4. Developing commercial conversion capacity of algae into bio-crude or bio-fuels in sufficient quantities to achieve and maintain energy independence.
These should be achieved through incentives for investment from the private sector and direct investments by government. The investments, both public and private would yield returns in orders of magnitude over time that would lead to long term economic security for this nation, or any nation making such investments. Extensive the investments will be, but the returns on that investment will be far greater and far reaching.
If we do not make these investments no, this nation will continually be exposed to economic failure associated with high energy costs until we either knuckle down and make these investments or we, as a nation fail economically. I would only hope that we, as a nation, will make the right choice and congress will act appropriately to ensure a bright future for this nation.
Robert Ware
President
National Water Fund
P.S. This is not biased due to my position with National Water Fund. If you only take the time to consider this issue for what it is worth. Clearly evident is that this is a viable course of action. It is the only one that I can say has a certainty that it will work if it is employed.
R. Ware speaking <<
My fellow PickensPlan members, we at all times have to find the good in eevery opportunity to discuss energy independnce. When we discuss this issue we must address all items that will be necessary for this nation to achieve that goal. The PickensPlan is an essential part of this nation developing energy independence for a renewable energy infrastructure will be required and that means that wind energy will be required. But wind energy is not the only item that has to be addressed and implemented, so I can not talk of just one issue with my representetives in the US Congress, however at every opportunity I have to engage them in meaningful dialog, I do take opportunity to speak of wind energy in addition to all other items that will be necessary for this nation to develop a sustainable energy independence. You should as well.
>> P. Werbos speaking
Good morning, Robert!
When Senator Specter announced that he was changing parties, James Decker informed us that he would be leaving this office.
At this point, Adam Tarr and I are the climate and energy team here.
So here are my thoughts in response to your email…
P. Werbos speaking <<
>> R. Ware Speaking
From: Robert Ware [mailto:jehkque@yahoo.com]
Dear Gentlemen:
With pending legislation having passed the house and is before the senate for consideration, I believe it is important for this nation's future that I again bring forth these issues. I will make effort to be as thorough as possible in outlining the infrastructure items and courses of action that will be required for this nation to develop energy independence while simultaneously reducing carbon dioxide emissions.
R. Ware speaking <<
>> P. Werbos speaking
I certainly agree that energy independence is a key priority. And there is more we should do to advance it beyond what is already in the House bill.
P. Werbos speaking <<
>> R. Ware Speaking
First I would like to redress the issue of money for research into conversion of Algae into bio-crude or directly into bio-fuels in the diesel hydrocarbon range. This I brought forth with Dr. Werbos in our March meeting but due to delays by Changing World Technologies, Inc. to relay information to your office difficulties occurred in securing direct funding for such a project in the most recent budget.
R. Ware speaking <<
>> P. Werbos speaking
We did not receive an earmark request from them in time for this year’s budget cycle. But the cycle keeps on, every year (though my fellowship here is only for one year).
It is always competitive – there are many good ideas coming from Pennsylvania. But new ways to make car fuel from domestic resources in Pennsylvania are certainly one
of the most important areas.
P. Werbos speaking <<
>> R. Ware Speaking
A recent web search yielded the following web address that may be of interest as it appears to be similar to the idea I have posed.
http://earth2tech.com/2008/09/03/algae-to-kerosene-jet-fuel-snags-3m/
R. Ware speaking <<
>> P. Werbos speaking
I will check that out. But in general – there are a lot of groups (new companies and old) and a lot of credible new ideas
for how to use algae to make fuel. Because people are exploring different possibilities, and we don’t know which will turn out to be the best,
we do need to fund a diversity of approaches at an exploratory level, in addition to whatever else we do. Whether CWT is one of those which ought to
funded ASAP, I do not know… but maybe. It does sound like a credible technology, and it’s hard for anyone to know for sure at this early stage.
In an ideal world, maybe that would be enough by itself to say it should be funded.
P. Werbos speaking <<
>> R. Ware Speaking
I have no doubt that it would be possible to use algae to produce bio-crude or other oil products that could effectively replace petroleum crude products currently used throughout the world. The main obstacle that is present at this time is having a sufficient supply of algae to achieve commercial viability of such conversions. The significance of this is monumental and research sources are available to show the feasibility of algae can function with flue gas carbon sequestration. I would go so far as to say that this practice would be far better than Geo-sequestration.
R. Ware speaking <<
>> P. Werbos speaking
You say a lot in these four sentences.
I agree 300% with your last sentence. Until and unless the US stops using any oil which comes from holes in the ground, making oil from algae is a lot
better than geological sequestration. It certainly has more value for national security! And there is no risk of zingers coming in that weren’t part of the game plan.
(With geological sequestration, there are possibilities of leakage and of stimulating microorganisms called archaea to do things we might not like.)
What’s more, I haven’t heard of any serious version of CCS (capture, concentration and geosequestration) that would cost less than $60 per ton of CO2.
The most solid estimates I have heard run at about $90 per ton. Cheaper is better… especially when a lot of folks don’t want to pay the higher price tag.
I don’t know whether the main obstacle is the supply of algae, exactly. We can grow all the algae we want. The cost and availability of the technology to grow the algae is one of the key
challenges here… but the challenge of getting favorable market conditions and funding for the technology is also a key challenge.
P. Werbos speaking <<
>> R. Ware Speaking
Through implementing use of algae for sequestration of carbon dioxide emissions in large scale would yield sufficient algae resources for use to produce commercially viable bio-crude or bio-fuel products. This in turn enables a reduction in use of petroleum crude for transportation energy, reducing this nation's dependence upon imported crude oil. This demonstrates how curbing green house gases can effectively apply to this nation moving towards sustainable energy independence.
R. Ware speaking <<
>> P. Werbos speaking
This would certainly be a great direction to move in, as fast as we reasonably can.
P. Werbos speaking <<
>> R. Ware Speaking
Secondly, the use of algae for carbon sequestration involves photosynthesis by the alga plants to achieve growth and reproduction. Plant photosynthetic processes require water, carbon dioxide and sunlight to produce produce organic hydrocarbons. At issue would be the availability of water resources to sustain the production of bio-crude or bio-fuels at levels necessary to achieve and maintain energy independence.. This dictates that there is a need to achieve sustainable water resources throughout this nation in support of developing energy independence and reduction of greenhouse gas emissions.
R. Ware speaking <<
>> P. Werbos speaking
Water supplies – especially freshwater – are certainly a key challenge at the global level. Many of the top futurists believe that water is second only to energy/environment. And water is coupled with energy,
to be sure.
But the details are tricky. Many of the people growing algae, or making cement from flue gas, say that their technology INCREASES the supply of fresh water, instead of consuming it!
At a recent hearing on carbon capture and reuse (held by the energy subcommittee of the appropriations committee), the senator from Utah expressed great delight about the way that this
kind of new technology can CONSUME the kind of salty water they have in the Great Salt Lake, and output water which is much fresher (or easier to convert to fresh water). Of course, algae can grow in salt water.
They can also grow in wastewater. Of course, different technologies have different needs, and there are many different market segments in the US; Utah is not like the East Coast or like Kansas or like Illinois, when it comes to water use for energy. That’s one of the reasons why we need some diversity in the technologies we encourage.
P. Werbos speaking <<
>> R. Ware Speaking
In order to achieve sustainable water resources throughout this nation there is a need to effectively conserve water resources where possible and develop new water resources where needed. A national water storage and transfer system is an effective tool in accomplishing these objectives. Such a national system is an essential infrastructure to enabling this nation to achieve and maintain energy independence.
R. Ware speaking <<
>> P. Werbos speaking
In truth --- Adam has been taking the lead in water issues here. He and I would both agree that these are important issues… but he would have a better than I do about what specifically we
need to do in that sector right now. The Environment and Public Works Committee
http://epw.senate.gov/public/?CFID=6910436&CFTOKEN=82226938
has been discussing water a lot lately.
I am not sure how you would translate the general principles below into specific new directions or gaps in their discussions.
Best of luck,
Paul
=========================================================================================================
P. Werbos speaking <<
>> R. Ware Speaking
Why or how you might ask?
The reasons are evident when considering the use of plant material as a primary source for this nation achieving energy independence from biological facts. The inescapable need of water consumption in the photosynthetic process of plants.
Thirdly, A national water transfer and storage system would require significant energy resources in order to operate in it's intended capacity. Energy use for pumping in the collection, transfer and distribution of water resources would be substantial. This means that a national water system should have an associated energy supply system. The intended purpose of a national water system to effect the achievement and maintenance of energy independence and reduction of greenhouse gas emissions, dictates that such an energy supply system should also have such abilities. Leading to the indication that the energy supply system for a national water system derive primarily from clean, renewable energy sources.
Wind, solar and geothermal energy resources would be among the primary candidates to deliver clean, renewable energy to a national water transfer and storage system. Thus, any bill addressed by congress which seeks to reduce carbon emissions and/or establish energy independence for this nation should establish the frame work of infrastructures outlined in this e-mail.
1. Carbon dioxide sequestration through the use of algae on all types of industrial plants that are major emitters of carbon dioxide.
2. The formation of a national water transfer and storage infrastructure that has an ability to attain new water resources from ocean waters or sustainable inland salt water sources.
3. The development of significant wind, solar and/or geothermal derived electrical generating infrastructures.
4. Developing commercial conversion capacity of algae into bio-crude or bio-fuels in sufficient quantities to achieve and maintain energy independence.
These should be achieved through incentives for investment from the private sector and direct investments by government. The investments, both public and private would yield returns in orders of magnitude over time that would lead to long term economic security for this nation, or any nation making such investments. Extensive the investments will be, but the returns on that investment will be far greater and far reaching.
If we do not make these investments no, this nation will continually be exposed to economic failure associated with high energy costs until we either knuckle down and make these investments or we, as a nation fail economically. I would only hope that we, as a nation, will make the right choice and congress will act appropriately to ensure a bright future for this nation.
Robert Ware
President
National Water Fund
P.S. This is not biased due to my position with National Water Fund. If you only take the time to consider this issue for what it is worth. Clearly evident is that this is a viable course of action. It is the only one that I can say has a certainty that it will work if it is employed.
R. Ware speaking <<
My fellow PickensPlan members, we at all times have to find the good in eevery opportunity to discuss energy independnce. When we discuss this issue we must address all items that will be necessary for this nation to achieve that goal. The PickensPlan is an essential part of this nation developing energy independence for a renewable energy infrastructure will be required and that means that wind energy will be required. But wind energy is not the only item that has to be addressed and implemented, so I can not talk of just one issue with my representetives in the US Congress, however at every opportunity I have to engage them in meaningful dialog, I do take opportunity to speak of wind energy in addition to all other items that will be necessary for this nation to develop a sustainable energy independence. You should as well.
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