Business Model: Wind Farm

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Comment by Joseph Armour on July 22, 2008 at 7:34am

NOTE: I am just now getting comfortable with all of the features that PickensPlan.com has to offer.

If anyone has content to add that is more than just a comment, please be sure to post it under the above Discussion Forum: Seeking Entrepreneurs to Develop a Business Model for Wind Farms .

It just came to my attention that there is a difference in a comment about the group and actual discussions of components to our business model. Please excuse my latency.

Thanks team,
-Joseph

Comment by Joseph Armour on July 22, 2008 at 7:28am

Clyde,
What is the name of Richard Bradford's group? I would like to learn more.

-Joseph

Comment by Clyde Childers on July 19, 2008 at 2:17pm

Did you want to join our group of Richard Bradford of creating a Investment fund for wind. I rqns some models using NREL wind model systems. Would love to hear what you think,

Comment by Joseph Armour on July 19, 2008 at 10:14am

Hello, all.

I apologize for my absence this last week. I have a few research papers due within the next two weeks.

The comments contributed below are definitely moving us toward "understanding what we don't understand", which is exactly where we need to be going. I am in communication with two wind farm developers, and have tentative meetings scheduled after August 2nd. My intent is to learn what I can from individuals that have actual experience in deploying wind farms.

Personally, I have always felt that "more heads are better than one" when it comes to problem solving. I see that our group contains numerous individuals that can offer relevant perspectives. Although I have been compiling a list of questions for my upcoming meetings in August, I am hoping that some of our group members could post what they feel are some of the most important questions needed to be answered.

Considering our objective, developing a business model for wind farms, please post the questions that you feel must first be answered in order to take the next step in developing a business model/plan.

Thank you,
-Joseph Armour

Comment by Francis Jock on July 19, 2008 at 6:34am

Hydropower has proven as a clean and somewhat environmentally friendly resource. There are hundreds of large and small-scale hydropower projects throughout the nation, each contributing to the grid. In one sense, an immense wind generator project mirrors and complements hydropower energy.

Naturally, both face many issues and there are many important lessons learned from the recent history of hydropower projects. You can read about some of these issues in two articles Native Winds and Economic Power that address our Nation's Energy Policy.

Comment by Ron A. Rhoades on July 14, 2008 at 6:36pm

Thank you for the information, Phil.

From what I can read, there is a lot of opposition to putting wind farms in areas that are populated - due to noise and appearance. A lot of "mountain" communities in the East have organized groups in opposition to wind power - at least "not in my backyard."

Still, I did read of a single town or two, in the East, that deployed a single windmill. It is this thought that initially interested me, but I believe Boone Pickens was correct when he stated the best places for this is "out West" - not only because the wind blows a lot more there, but also due to the need for large surrounding land for noise abatement.

A link to General Electric's 1.5MW to 3.6MW wind mills is: http://ge.ecomagination.com/site/index.html#wind/introduction

FYI - I came across this April 2008 article (excerpts follow):

"T. Boone Pickens, our favorite Texas-oil-baron-turned-wind-wildcatter, has placed an order for 667 wind turbines from GE for a total cost of $2 billion. The turbines will have a generating capacity of 1,000 megawatts, enough to power 300,000 homes. The order was made through Pickens’ Mesa Power for his Pampa Wind Project in the Texas Panhandle, which he aims to turn into the world’s largest wind farm, generating some 4,000 megawatts of power as early as 2014 ... Pickens, who made his billions in the Texas oil industry and founded BP Capital Management, has become a very vocal opponent of long-term oil investments, predicting that oil will hit $150 a barrel ... After his speech he sat down with reporters and discussed energy politics, during which he stressed that transmission issues are still the biggest problem facing America’s energy supply. He also said he wants to see the equivalent of the Eisenhower highway system for power distribution. Transmission lines are no doubt adding to the cost of building wind farms in Texas. The state could spend anywhere between $2.95 billion and $6.38 billion on laying new lines, according to a recent report. And T. Boone Pickens has also said his wind farm will cost as much as $10 billion to build."

It sounds like these are the 1.5MW turbines. If so, the cost per turbine (ordering in bulk) would appear to be $3 million each. Plus the costs of connecting to the grid. Plus installation (which requires heavy machinery). Plus land costs (with enough land to not be involved in noise abatement lawsuits.

Does that sound right? Could someone check my math?

A single 1.5MW wind turbine, in the right location, might be feasible, for a town in the East.

I'm still trying to understand the economics and the politics of deploying this technology. Thank you. Ron

Comment by Brad Bates on July 14, 2008 at 4:46pm

I live in St. Petersburg FL. Today President Bush lifted the executive order that banned offshore drilling near here. (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1437813720080714?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews)

I do not want to get into a discussion of politics, the President, or oil drilling -- I agree with Mr. Pickens when he states that we "... can't drill our way out...."

I would prefer to help find a way to get communities in Florida to build wind farms, both on and off shore, as a way to generate revenues and reduce oil dependence. In Florida that type of thing will be way more popular than off shore drilling.

I would like to get some ideas about how to get this started, including the little things like who to contact and how to get and keep their attention focused on this issue.

Also, which are the best organizations to contact -- private or public? Would local energy companies be a good place to start? And, if public organizations are the ones to contact, at what level -- local, county, state, all three?

Anyone have any suggestions or ideas on the above?

Finally, I recently purchased a small farm in Alabama and planned to use wind, solar and possibly natural gas (depends on availability). This entire organization is incredibly timely for me on a personal level. Please keep that technical information coming!

Comment by Phil Preston on July 14, 2008 at 9:12am

It might help to understand the classes of wind turbines. First there are utility grade units that are 500kW up to 3MW in size. Siemens has one that is 6MW. The typical one used is about 1.5MW. Second there are industrial class turbines in the 100kW to 500kW range. Then there is small wind turbines used for farms and residences etc. Those are up to 100kW in size. At the low end of small wind are vertical axis wind turbines (VAWT), like Mariah, that are up to 5kW. Our company, Momentum Advantage Partners has worked with one VAWT startup group.

There are significant expenses associated with connecting the turbines to the grid. That is why, I believe, we only see utility grade turbines hooked to the transmission lines.

As far as the business model is concerned, I like the idea of several sizes like Joseph outlined. But I think they should all be utility grade. We could do a separate model for an industrial grade configuration to help manufacturers and businesses decide if they want to produce their own power.

Comment by Ron A. Rhoades on July 13, 2008 at 8:10pm

Has anyone had actual experience deploying a wind turbine - either as a stand-alone unit for a residence, or as a larger turbine serving a community (or co-op)?

I have read about towns that have done this in the past. Am very curious as to where to find more information about the economics of this - costs to deploy and hook to the local grid; state laws requiring purchase of electricity by power companies (or long-term agreements which might be reached with power companies on providing power at certain rates); sources of funding (including availability of muni bonds); etc. There are numerous projects that others might become involved in, as a 501(c)(3) organization and/or through a local initiative. Thank you in advance.

Comment by jackgraves on July 13, 2008 at 6:05pm

I live in a townhome community in Denver with 250 units( approx. 2100 sq. ft. on three floors, 700 sq ft. roof area). Each unit has its own roof, we have a large clubhouse with an excellent roof for solar panels and additionally we have about an acre of grass in the middle of the complex and other areas that could accommodate wind turbines. We are right next to three other similar complexes. I have contemplated for the last year, and that is all, how one complex or all four could come together and create a 250 to 1000 member alt enery co-op. I know there are government grants and Xcel energy, our local energy co.,has rebates and will buy back excess energy. Any ideas?

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