Real CNG Cars

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Permalink Reply by Dave on August 21, 2008 at 7:22pm

Gorgon,
Honda supplies a "Phill" system with the purchase of the Civic GX? I thought it was an additional cost?

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Permalink Reply by gordon wolf on August 22, 2008 at 6:43am

Negotiate at the dealer for the fill system. The extra cost is not much. I will finance the extra cost for you. The grand idea of a fully approved NG vehicle is that your local service station might just be smart enough to put in an NG fueling station if a lot of Honda Civic NG cars show up. This has to get the attention of the morons we call politicians now. It is a small but important part of the solution.

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Permalink Reply by Larry Lance on August 22, 2008 at 8:24am

Maby I'm wrong but Honda and Toyota are kicking GM's and Ford's ass when it comes to cars and trucks with good gas mileage.
Honda and Toyota have the mindset of "if it is continues to sell we will build it".
Ford and GM have the mindset of "if we build it they will buy it"
Honda and Toyota still sell SUV's
Ford and GM have alot of SUV's setting on their car lots. Soon their SUV's will be on sale at the price they should have been it in the frist place.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Smith on August 22, 2008 at 10:59am

New NGV's are the only way to go, conversion kits are for home mechanics not the general public.

The Phill is not available in my area but that should not stop sales in states were is it approved. I looked into buying the car and Phill.

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Permalink Reply by gordon wolf on August 22, 2008 at 11:11am

Conversion kits are a hobby but the penalties for not following the EPA and state regulations are fierce. Huge fines, license revocation, canceled auto insurance, and the enormous financial risk if there is injury cause by an improperly installed system. The Phill availability is a surmountable problem. I have an inquiry into Honda now requesting state by state availability. Next week I will post some statistics on NG sources, residential costs by state, and the consumption of NG in vehicles now.
Buy a Honda.

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Permalink Reply by Dave on August 22, 2008 at 11:52am

Isn't fuelMaker the installer for the "Phill" system? Here is their site indicating:

http://www.fuelmaker.com/Dealers/usdealers.htm

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Permalink Reply by Gerald G Flood on August 23, 2008 at 7:14am

Steve,
Home mechanics are not capable of understanding and implementing the safety standards in NFPA 52. Conversion kits allow fleet users, the prime candidate for CNG, to ECONOMICALLY convert enough vehicles to justify a costly CNG filling station. The 'miracle' 'Phill' is warrantied for 1,000 hours and takes about 8 hours to phill your tank. That means in 125 days, YOU get to maintain at your expense. Good luck.
Unfortunately, at todays prices, private CNG vehicles and home filling make little economic sense. Fleets are the first and best candidates, with over 15 million fleet vehicles in the USA, running on CNG would almost eliminate imports.

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Permalink Reply by gordon wolf on August 23, 2008 at 8:25am

Gerald;
Fleet NG cars with proper dedicated filling stations are by far the best candidates to get the public's attention to confirm NG technology. Home mechanics are the worst idea possible as there will be disasters. Early adaptors who purchase their own Hondas should be encouraged with credits and privileges (free parking at meters in San Diego for example) and the promise of commercial CNG filling stations being conveniently located. This will require some form of subsidy to filling stations but the price differential with gasoline should be draw to customers. Having done a lot of consulting work with C Store owners, the fuel business does not make a lot of money but selling potato chips, Coca Cola, and M&M's does. The more total car traffic the more profitable the C Store. {Gasoline per gallon$4.19} {CNG Equivalent per gallon $2.10} This will get people's attention outside of the local utilities parking lot. Also, companies that have CNG powered fleets, should be encouraged to offer fuel -at cost- to their employees on the company site. Another traffic building idea. The Phill appliance is a start. A lot better than having nothing. A PC that would be considered a child's toy today cost $5,000 in 1998.
Gordon

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Permalink Reply by DubleDeuce on September 7, 2008 at 11:06pm

HEEEEYYY Gordon ole' buddy. I smell an opportunity here <<the fuel business does not make a lot of money but selling potato chips, Coca Cola, and M&M's does. >>

Put in a line of Lean Cuseine pastas and wine in a box (small box) and several tables. While the NG filling is going on (the establishment can control the time it takes to do a complete refueling) people are in the C restraurant enjoying a "sit down" meal. Hey, don't forget a sushi bar and maybe even a sports bar wth a 60" LCD.

Exasparated boss to VERY tardy secretary employee: Where the HELL were you all day?

Employee: I was OUT getting GAS for your car..........Burp!!! Can I go to lunch now?

The Deuceman

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Permalink Reply by Steve Smith on August 25, 2008 at 8:41am

The cost of maintaining the Phill pump needs to be factored into the cost of ownership. Customers need to verify there is a service provider and service agreements before they commit to this. If a product requires the customer to learn technical information then it is not a product that provides a solution. The customer just wants to use the product.

Having the public infrastructure to refuel vehicles as easy as gas needs to be built up. Most people would not want the Phill station in their garage.

With the limited refuel options most NGV's will be commuter cars to/from work and short errands. At first NGV's should be concentrated in big cities where they could begin the transition and other areas of the country can use gas.

My view is we need to address the energy issue with a plan. If we do not work on a plan changes will be imposed and most americans will not like these changes.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Anderson on September 9, 2008 at 12:38pm

The limited number of filling stations and the driving range of most cars running on CNG are big negatives. And your right about Phill I have been on the site they only have service techs in a very limited number of cities (granted the phill is just a glorified compressor and maintenance should be minimal). For those who want to charge ahead now consider dual fuel converstions (gasoline and CNG). But again good luck finding a certified converstion for you make and model car.

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Permalink Reply by Gerald G Flood on September 9, 2008 at 12:52pm

Jason,
This is why the primary market for CNG is fleets. There are over 16 million fleet vehicles in the USA. Most fleets have a limited daily range of operations, return at night to a home base and can justify a reliable and large sized compressor. The 'Phill' has a warranty of 108 hours, after that you PAY for the repairs and service. The only viable way for NG to be widespread is with low cost home compressors or when ADSORBENT storage is practical, then you'll be able to fill in many more places. Until then:FLEETS, FLEETS, FLEETS! I keep asking for Pickens people to call their local gas utility and ask how many vehicles they have on CNG and WHY it isn't all of them. Try it, you'll be surprised.

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