CNG Conversion Kits and Their Vehicles

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Comment by Steve Smith on August 19, 2008 at 4:23pm

I have looked into buying a Honda NGV car but found out the natural gas provider here might close the only station pumps NG to the public. The refueling option on Honda's web site is not available in my area.

My view of NGV is we do not need to do it every where in the US. We need to get large cities to convert first then work across the US making the product available to medium size cities.
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-gx/environment.aspx
http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-gx/refueling.aspx

Comment by Gerald G Flood on August 19, 2008 at 4:06pm

a 97 'Anything ' is just a 'beater', a 'zebra' A conversion costs more than it is worth. Get real, you are just looking for things to be pissed off about. The rest of us live in the real world. Grow up.

Comment by Michael & Patricia Maire on August 19, 2008 at 1:21pm

Government BS seems to be pretty self explanatory. Especially given the company you started your comment with.
But this is how it was explained to me.
I contacted 1 company about trying to get a Propane conversion kit for my '97 Mazda Pick up. A little 4 cylinder with fuel injection. What they said was that for companies to make a kit for a specific "on road" vehicle, they have to do all the research, the experimenting, and engineering, and make atleast one running vehicle. Then after all their time, money, and labor, they must GIVE the vehicle to, I do not remember which Agency, but give it to some Government Agency, for them to test and approve. And if they want to they can stop them for what ever reason they see fit. Then the process starts all over again. And that drives up the price of the kits.
I can see being governed to a point, so companies aren't ripping off the public, but they need to lighten up on the regulations a bit. Why should I spend a ton of money to make something, and GIVE it away, to have it shot down.
If this is the case, the Agency doing the testing, should have to pay for the vehicle to be tested. If the Government can say it, they can pay for it too.
That's my 2 cents worth.
If I am wrong, please inform me. I am not above admitting when I am wrong, and I'm always willing to learn.
Ref: Alternative Fuels & Advanced Vehicles Data Center's Conversions Web site. (Reference 40 CFR 85)
Ref: http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/fuels/natural_gas_laws_federal.html
Thank you,
Michael

Comment by Gerald G Flood on August 19, 2008 at 10:17am

www.impcotechnologies.com. What exactly is 'Government BS'??

Comment by Michael & Patricia Maire on August 19, 2008 at 1:56am

OK, I know this group is about CNG. But what about Propane? Is it that much different than Natural Gas? The technology is out there. There are companies that make affordable conversion kits that have vehicles use tanks from forklifts. But they are for older carb type cars and trucks. And they have to say it is for "Off Road Use" because of the government BS. The same BS keeps them from advancing the kits to newer fuel injected\ computerized cars and trucks. Propane tank filling stations are readily available, and still at decent prices. It just seems to me that this is an avenue that needs to be followed.
Michael

Comment by David Smith on August 18, 2008 at 7:21pm

Paul,

The reason I do not think the fleet model will work is because we have been on that track for 20+ years and it has failed. Many of the fleet operators make their stations private even though they use taxpayer money with grants to build them. They do not like having to operate the systems for the public. Everyone makes the development of infrastructure seem like rocket science when the technology involved is quite simple to install. The only way a fleet system would be effective is to mandate all fleets to use natural gas and open their filling stations to the public. That is a loosing proposition. Our politicians do not have the guts to stand up to that much industry and force them to comply. The Drive America on Natural Gas Act allows the dual fuel vehicles to enter the mix during the buildup phase of infrastructural development thereby removing the availability issue.

Comment by David Smith on August 18, 2008 at 10:28am

Here is a great study on Adsorbent Media for Low Pressure Natural Gas


Carbon Fiber Composite Adsorbent Media for Low Pressure Natural Gas Storage
Tim Burchell
Carbon Materials Technology Group
Oak Ridge National Laboratory

EXCERPT
For these reasons the US Department of Energy has pursued a research program aimed at he development of suitable materials for the storage of natural gas in the physically adsorbed state. Adsorbed natural gas (ANG) is conventionally stored in porous carbon materials at a gas pressure of 3.5 MPa (500 psi). This lower storage pressure reduces both the cost compression and the cost of the storage vessel, and represents a lesser safety hazard than the higher pressures used for CNG. The DOE storage target for ANG has been set at 150 V/V, i.e., 150 STP (101.325 KPa, 298K) liters of gas stored per liter of pressure vessel internal volume.

http://www.ornl.gov/~webworks/cppr/y2001/misc/114925.pdf

Comment by Gerald G Flood on August 18, 2008 at 6:57am

David, Thanks At least the first real reference to conversions in Iran for $50.00.
We need solid references to back up the 1,000 of wacko statements found on the Pickens Plan website.
The Pickens Plan website has deteriorated from its original purpose to basically an forum for anything, just look at the photos!!!
That said, I might as well promote my fire extinguisher business along with those goofs who promote their TRAVEL AGENCIES and other products.

Comment by David Smith on August 17, 2008 at 8:19pm

Gerald,
Check out this study produced by the IAGS. I do not think this is an urban legend. It states that Iranian government incentives get a CNG conversion to 55 dollars per conversion. This organization performs studies for NATO.

Institute for the Analysis of Global Security (IAGS)
Ahmadinejad’s Gas Revolution:
A Plan to Defeat Economic Sanctions
Anne Korin and Gal Luft

http://www.iags.org/iran121206.pdf

http://www.iags.org/

Mission statement of IAGS

The IAGS Mission: Energy Security

The Institute for the Analysis of Global Security (IAGS) is a non-profit organization which directs attention to the strong link between energy and security and provides a stage for public debate on the various avenues to strengthening the world's energy security.

Comment by Dave on August 17, 2008 at 7:22pm

Absolutely Debra

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