CNG Conversion Kits and Their Vehicles

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Comment by Debra Goldenberg on August 17, 2008 at 6:54pm

Does this group also address getting the NG from your home? I think it would be a good idea for Phill conversion kits to be promoted also. It will give a source of fuel until NG stations come on, so more cars, more reason to have stations. Honda already is providing them with their NG cars:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-08-26-natgascar_x.htm

They are made in Canada, why not a US company to compete with them...Pickens is using one, and this is bought from a foreign country, though a friendly one!

Comment by Don Castella on August 17, 2008 at 5:31pm

If you visit http://www.cngforum.com/, you will learn a great deal of practical information about CNG vehicles and conversions. There is also a forum about CNG Fill Stations.

Comment by Gerald G Flood on August 17, 2008 at 4:52pm

Dave, How many vehicles have you converted??? Doing a few gives you perspective, and a reality check. Re Read my comments, I said without Adsorbent technology, then Fleets are the first and best choice for any number of logical and reasonable reasons. Find out what Adsorbent technology is all about.

How come everyone mentions $50.00 conversions in Iran but nobody on any verifiable website clearly states that??? Another "Urban Legend' maybe???
Home dispensers are high maintenance, slow and expensive, do some checking from RELIABLE sources.

Please do not follow the accepted NFPA standards, then we will see the result of bungling with 3,000 to 3,500 psi flammable gases. It's God's plan to get rid of fools. If you have a better plan, join NFPA and volunteer your expertise to establish safety standards, mention my name as I am a long time member and past member of SAE
The best way to make CNG a viable fuel is to use it where it makes ECONOMIC sense. There are 60-80 million fleet vehicles in the USA. Don't worry about 'enemies' in Iran, we have plenty to do here. We have about the same number of CNG vehicles her in the USA as they have in Iran. We also have more fueling stations. Check it out!!

Facts are always better than 'Urban Legends' and help the cause, not hurt.

Comment by Dave on August 17, 2008 at 4:16pm

Younkin,
Here is my response to your comments on
"frustration,"
"hopelessness,"
and Conclusion."

Amen,
Amen,
and BE VOCAL, BE VOCAL, BE VOCAL!!!

Seriously, your conclusions seem right on! How do we achieve them? T. Boone Pickens leads the way, and as his army, we keep our legislator's feet to the fire. Tell them to enact legislation that does the job! Voice your opinion to your legislators as much and as often as possible!

Comment by younkin on August 17, 2008 at 3:36pm

My trip into CNG Wonderland (or CNG Hell?)

1) Frustration brought on by rising gas prices.

2) Frustration because of driving gas guzzling cars and being dependant on unleaded Fuel.

3) Ignorance of thinking fuel prices would never go up.

4) Salvation to my fuel problems coming from CNG because of its low price.

5) Frustration looking into CNG conversions and finding out:
a) Very few vehicles have been converted to CNG in the US.
b) The vehicles already converted or that you can convert are expensive and undesirable. (this expense cancels out the savings of using CNG thus making CNG out of reach for the common person)
c) CNG conversion kits are virtually non existent to the general public.
d) The shops who do conversions are booked months in advance and won't sell kits.
e) The rules and regulations governing CNG are confusing and slanted toward big oil and big money.

6) Hopelessness realizing that even though CNG sounds good the idea has already been killed due to:
a) Government Regulation causing:
1) Very few US Manufacturers of CNG kits and components actually selling in the US.
2) CNG Manufacturers inside and outside the US to fear selling in the US due to regulations and fines.
3) Some install shops to make all the money while other shops, mechanics and individuals are left behind due to high pricing, over regulation and the unavailability of CNG parts.

(note of interest: EPA Approved kits cover a select number of American cars and trucks while including virtually no Imports (which are the most popular)).

Conclusion: We need to streamline the process for:
1) CNG kit approval.
2) Training and Certification of mechanics to install CNG.
3) Building and approving new CNG filling Stations.
4) Using before and after Emission tests to get rebates, incentives, license, etc..

Jim Younkin
801 427 2284
younkin@gmail.com

Comment by David Smith on August 17, 2008 at 3:15pm

Here is a website stating a conversion with government support cost 55 dollars in Iran. I looks like our enemies see the value of CNG conversions but we do not.

EXCERPT
To achieve rapid conversion the country has thus far built over 107 conversion workshops of three types in 37 cities: workshops specializing in conversion of diesel engines, conversion of mini-buses, conversion of cars and vans. All together more than 114,000 vehicles have been retrofitted. Domestic auto manufacturers have prepared their existing after sale service network to service natural gas vehicles. To encourage Iranians to convert their vehicles the government subsidizes up to 85 percent of the conversion cost. The cost of conversion for the average Iranian motorist is about $55. The Iranian government provides incentives to CNG car buyers and has meanwhile decreased the gasoline subsides. As a result, despite the low cost of gasoline in comparison to the rest of the world, it is 3-4 times more expensive than natural gas.

http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:zf7SgttLuO4J:www.iags.org/iran121206.pdf+cng+conversion+cost+iran&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us

Comment by Dave on August 17, 2008 at 2:45pm

Hello Gerald Flood,
I think your comments about the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) need better clarification. From my read, it seems the NFPA is currently looking to "compromise" on the CNG conversion kit issues. Also, your comments that "CNG properly belongs to fleet vehicles" seem to fly in the face of common sense. How is it that CNG conversions are being made and used all over the world, but here in the U.S.A.? Also, with systems, such as the "Phills" system, refueling can be accomplished form one's home.

Comment by David Smith on August 17, 2008 at 2:40pm

No one here wants to skirt safety issues only remove unjustified regulations. Proper instillation is necessary; I just do not understand why only fleets should be considered. The technology surrounding natural gas for vehicle use has been around a long time. Most fleet operators do not want to see the regulations change because the lucrative grants they depend on will disappear. Once the 100,000.00 per certification is removed, the competition in the NGV market will grow quickly. The large organizations now installing fleets will face massive competition and that is good for our economy.

If natural gas is good enough to save money for governmental organizations, I think it is good enough for the American citizen. The rest of the world including Europe is on a path of development to convert to natural gas with The Blue Corridor.

THE BLUE CORRIDOR - ECONOMIC AND ENVIROMENTAL MODEL

EXCERPT
There is presently a wide range of subsidies for the erection of natural gas filling stations, for both private fleet and public use. There is also a wide range of incentives for buying new gas vehicles. These go in parallel with the traffic restrictions for which gas vehicles are exempt.
http://www.imtt.pt/sites/IMTT/CentroDocumentacao/RepertorioDocumental/Estudos/Documents/Clean%20air%20power.pdf

It seems Americans will be put behind the eight ball again if we do not at least follow Europe’s lead. We can not leave the American citizen hanging once again while Europe changes their infrastructure. This is just my simple opinion.

Comment by Janice L Stephenson on August 17, 2008 at 11:51am

Can any car be converted? I have a Subaru Forester. Of course I would have to find out where and from who the cng is available here in the high desert. Might well be worth it though. Does it boost mileage or does it just keep the air cleaner?

Comment by Gerald G Flood on August 17, 2008 at 11:40am

I would strongly suggest, having converted over 350 vehicles to either CNG or LPG, that you familiarize yourself with NFPA Standard 52 which specifies the correct safety requirements of doing a CNG conversion. If not then Darwin's theory of evolution of the fittest will be enforced.
Until, and unless low pressure ADSORBENT technology
becomes available, conversions to CNG properly belongs to fleet vehicles which have a limited radius and return to base each night.
Yes, you can do "an old 86 chevy silverado sitting in my shop" but why would you??

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