PLEASE TALK ME DOWN....SAY IT AIN'T SO

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Permalink Reply by Ken Scott on February 12, 2009 at 9:13am

Monte, hang in there, not sure who you are listening to but let's look at our history (yes, I was a we' tot right after the "Great Depression".

Pres Hoover, and our nation, needed to stop the huge losses our Nation faced. So, my grandfather (a farmer in N. Dak) sold his pigs to the Gov. and they salutered them and dumped these carcasses in the Missouri River. Why, when people were starving? To create a shortage, so that the price of pork would go up and farmers could raise pigs and make a profit. It did not work. Pres. Roosevelt, decided to give the pigs to people that needed them and create jobs (WPA, CCC, etc). Well that helped (at least it helped my father). Still our Nation was in trouble. Next came WWII.......that solved the problem.

Yes, I and my family lived through these eras and we saw what worked. Do we need another huge war? NO, but what we do need is the entire Nation to act like it is in a huge war...this time a war to rebuild our Nation and make it great again. We need real jobs, as a Republican and a Capitalist, plus the founder of our small business (40 employees)...I can tell you what went wrong now and then...GREED! Greed of the home owners of today (bigger is NOT better) Greed of the large Banks and their failed CEO's (who have not been fired...they would if they were my CEO).

Our Nation employees almost 50% of our people in some form of Gov job. Next, service industry...and so it goes. We currently are supporting our entire Nation with a small %...these are the farmers, coal miners, Intel Corp, Microsoft..and yes, my small manufacturing firm. However, the huge amount of Oil we import, the huge imports from China (Greed again...more for less $$) are and will ruin our Nation. That and packaging up bad home, credit card,etc, loans by huge banks and selling them on the International investment market...all for more $$$...aka GREED!.

We, as Nation, will learn but the hard way...meanwhile, let's hope Wind, Solar, electric vehicles with good fuel cells (I am building one this spring) and Nat gas/Propane conversions for diesel (my diesel truck is 15% Propane) etc, will build USA Jobs and put money in our National coffers. Good luck...and don't listen to radicals and radio talk shows. Cheers

Ken

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Permalink Reply by Fred Mars on February 12, 2009 at 12:46pm

Great post. I will say that it will be us, the American people and not the government that turns us around, unless you consider all the work we will do to "correct" the flaws within the beltway.And you are also right about the greed of bankers and corporations that place profits above all else.

Monte, the real "gems" of intel are not randomly picked out of all the noise, they are analyzed in complex algorithms to find patterns, repetitions, some indication that there is an order or structure hidden within that chaos. It is why supercomputers became so important in those intel gathering agencies like NRO/NSA. It's not a bunch of agents watching videos and tapping phones anymore.

Google wants to digitize all human knowledge making it available to everyone with a web browser. Artificial Intelligence will be developed (if it hasn't been already) that determine who has access to private data, public data, financial or medical data, etc. With the proliferation of digital video cameras in so many public areas, it will require AI to determine when some action is required and notify the properly authorized agency or person.

Many will claim that much of these technologies will further infringe on privacy, but perhaps a too narrow view is preventing from seeing how it can support one's freedom and rights. With such devices as retinal scans, fingerprint, facial recognition, you can be properly identified but the data about you can only be obtained by levels of authority and authentication. This means that a doctor can get your medical data but not your credit history. The cashier at the supermarket can obtain payment from the institution and method of your choice but little else about you.

To some it may seem ominous when all of this data about you can be disseminated but the reality is t hat it is available, and what is needed is to have a very secure information systems infrastructure.

Attachments:

• The Plan To Save America.doc, 36 KB

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Permalink Reply by TDC on February 12, 2009 at 11:25am

President Obama says only the government can save us!

The Daily Change

TDC

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Permalink Reply by Allen R. Gale on February 12, 2009 at 2:29pm

Monte -

What you see being carried out now by the Far Left is a carefully planned maneuver to make the USA into the USSA (United Socialist States of America) which started many decades ago. As it is showing up in the "Stimulus Bill" it is also spoils of war for the ret of them. As they said, "we won - we get to do it OUR way!" Well, until they cancel the right to vote, they have not won. The best thing that I see comong out of this entire fiasco is the thousands of people that ignored our political scene for so long waking up and smelling the garbage.

As Fred said, it will be US that pulls the country out of this mess, as it always is. Glenn Beck on FoxNews said it this week - "it is like we are afraid of the Gov't - in stead of the Gov't being afraid of US!" We need to turn that around. They have 2 years.

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Permalink Reply by Allen R. Gale on February 13, 2009 at 5:24am

Jason -

I understand your problem - one sulution is research, and another is seek info from those who already have put those pieces together and have hold of the "big picture", One of my flight instructors told me that the best thing I could learn is to learn from others' mistales and experiences - as we will never live long enough to make them all ourselves.

There are people out there that are telling it like it is. Find them, take their info, and verify it for yourself. Also read Fred's Plan to Save America. Then get together with others with the same motivations and objectives and take action.

Good luck to us all - remember that Freedom is NEVER Free.

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Permalink Reply by Monte Smith on February 13, 2009 at 5:57am

Okay. Well, I did a BPI (broad public issue) of my plea to be talked down from what might be a delusional and paranoid induced climb out onto a fragile precipice. Instead of being talked down what I discovered is that I am not our on this narrow ledge by my lonesome. Does that make me feel any better?.....only a little.

I want to share with you the responses that I received from others not on this site. Here they are (with only a little editing).....

...................

"I felt that the timing of the crisis was suspect. Just in time before the end of the Bush admin ... I'ts all a big farce. It will cost me half of what my retirement/investment was worth .. because you better believe it someone will pay for this and it will not be the banks it will be us the stupid taxpayers ... a few hundred years ago such Bull sh*t started the French Revolution."
....................

"OK DOWN BOY. I throw food at the television if i can't reach the remote. Remember this about Katrina- coming (i rather think tsunami, myself). the only way to make green happen /jpbs /money be made is in showing people how to long term GEEE fight for yourself. Dont sell the tree huggin as much as the money savin' and i think the peeps will come."
...................

"Lindsey Williams and Alex Jones carry on a good discussion this week in 4 parts you can find on youtube.

"Lindsey and Alex discuss the likelihood that chaos will rule the day. All of our plans, no matter how brilliant, well funded, etc ... will stand the test of war, civil or world, or some grevious constitutional crisis.

"... about 100 miles south of Acapulco is where I might head, :0) if it all unravels in the next year or two."
......................
"All isn’t as it seems however it is to close to the reality imagined to ignore.

"I’m personally mad as _ell. But I do not know who to blame. In such instances, I find it most useful to take responsibility and do the little that I can to rectify the situation. I call it ant philosophy. One is a nuisance, get enough of them together and you have a real problem to deal with. I’m just one little _iss ant voice, but I can stir up some other ants and they can do the same."

.....................

"May I suggest reading a book entitled The Truth Shall Set You Free by David Icke in which he explains the money/credit system in great detail, including the agenda behind it. No, this is not by chance - it is part of an ongoing, centuries-old plan, the goals of which are to keep the world majority prisoners of debt. As for today’s particular woes, it is just the mild panic that goes with any economic ripple that displaces people from their homes, parts them from their jobs and possessions. There will be suicides, there will be starvation, and there will be many, many more homeless - but it is temporary and serves the overall purpose which is to follow the plan which is so long-term as to be inconceivable. It is exactly as you describe - a deliberate enactment to follow a strategy the goals of which are money and power, the only two things that matter to this small group of power elite.

"I went to find some select quotes and I really can’t distill it down to several relevant quotes. Everything is so connected, it’s impossible to convey the vast scope of it in a few sentences. May I suggest (strongly) that you pick up a copy from the library (ISBN 0 9526147 1 5) and spend a week or so absorbing it. On the other hand, if you have the resources, you could do worse than buying a copy for yourself and every thinking person you know. As far as I am concerned, it is far more important than the Pickens Plan, which is actually just a knee-jerk response to the strategic plan you mentioned. and it is the only book I have ever recommended to anyone."

..........................

"Relax Monte. You can't change anything so don't even try. Plan your garden for the spring and let the animals sort themselves out. We know where things are going, but have to give the losers a chance to capitulate. It shouldn't be long."

..........................

"Flagrant avarice has apparently now become not only acceptable in America, but also SOP.


I no longer watch or read the news. Haven't done so for nearly a year now. News leaks in, still, but it is the same old thing: variations on a theme.

I had to buy a new car battery the other day. It cost 10% of my monthly income. I opted for the 8-year warranty, telling the fellow behind the counter that it meant that I'd die before the battery. He thought I was crazy, but I felt reassured.


We have gotten the kind of government that we apparently deserve."

.............................

"Sorry but I can't talk you off this ledge. I see too many "coincidences to
believe that is it the perfect storm.

"Then remember that the 2 Roosevelts stopped this cycle. then remember that
the regan/bush/clinton/bush people systematically removed ALL of the safe
gaurds the Roosevelts put into place and your worst fears might be
substantiated. Sorry. I do not believe that the economic markets of the
globe are that fickle.

"One last thing my friend. As the simple question who owns all of the
wealth. You and I and all of the people like you and I do not have the
ability to move the markets one whit. When you realize that the bottom 80%
of the population only own about 8% of the total wealth in the country,
you quickly realize that it takes a very few people to all tip the cart.
have been aware of these facts for a very long time and have watched the
game, helpless to do anything other then worry.

"Sorry, you are standing on the edge of the existential abyss. Realize you
have no control over your fate on that front and good luck weathering the
storm. You have friends."

http://www.lcurve.org/

http://www.therationalradical.com/dsep/wealth-distribution.htm

http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

http://www.worldvotenow.com/html/who_owns_the_wealth_i.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth

http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/faculty/hodgson/Courses/so11/strat...

...................................

May we always desire to play a better game and create a better tomorrow (for everyone!).

Pleas fasten your seat belts and if already fastened please tighten your seat belts. A wild ride is about to get a lot wilder! May the force be with us.

Monte

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Permalink Reply by Steve at work on February 13, 2009 at 1:21pm

Monte;
Until recently I have been able to convince myself that I really am paranoid.It was more comfortable than facing what I have come to believe is the truth.Over the past few years I have seen a pattern of events that taken by themselves mean little other than the usual stupidity of the politicians serving themselves but that taken together make me believe that there is a plan by the powerful of this country to put us peasants back in our places.

We the people had became too rich and too independent. We were developing the ability to stand up and defeat the power structure.Witness the election of 1994. We the people had to be stopped.The plan was to break us finacially, to make us more and more dependent on the government, break our will to resist, and make us believe that it was to late to stop them.

The plan was as simple as it was devious. The invasion would come from Mexico and it would be sponsored by our own government with our own tax money.Clilton started with NAFTA and allowing the southern border to to turn into a sieve.Bush the second continued the process and started prosecuting border guards for doing their jobs. The last election both candidates started off open borders and then promised to build the fence and fix the problem. Both of them have since proven themselves to be liars. Obama has not mentioned building a fence in spite of a lot of suggestions that it would be the best use of stimulus money. Provisions to require the use of American made products and American labor have been removed from the stimulus bill. The steel for the road projects will come from Europe and China. The concrete will come from Africa.The labor will be majority illegal aliens from Central America and Mexico. The social engineering will be used to break the American middle and working classes down to the servant wages of Mexico in order to control them.

Is it to late now? no. Will it be to late in two years? no but since most Americans don't have a clue nothing will change by then either.

But of course these are only the paranoid delusional rantings of a senile, broken down old cowboy. Or was it that I smoked a little to much dope in my younger years. Or maybe my problem is that I never got over the PTSD after my tour with the marines in sunny Southeast Asia.I don't have a clue what makes me think this way.

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Permalink Reply by Fred Mars on February 13, 2009 at 6:17pm

The government is not the problem and it is not an American political movement per se. I would suggest that you read Jim Marrs book, The Rise of the Fourth Reich In America to understand what makes things happen the way they do.

It will not be your sons and daughters that will turn their weapons on you, it will be foreign troops under the auspices of the United Nations. Maybe they agree with Mexico and will take California back. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Will not do anything but give us more to debate and ruminate. But it will not build one SEE home or install solar/wind energy producing systems there either. Why isn't the money being spent to promote this?

I can answer that last question myself. It's plain and it's a pain to admit it, but it is us that is the reason why. Even with all of the letters I write to city council county commissioners, state representatives, and Washington Representatives and Senators, no matter how articulate and precisely I explain things, they don't hear it from all of you too, so they aren't getting it.

I have been dealing with the pain of a hip that needs replacing without the ability to pay for the surgery, so I deal with it. I exercise and eat fruits and vegetables, I meditate because I don't use drugs for pain and I still have to do some work to pay the bills as my wife is on disability. We all have problems of our own to deal with every day, whether we have full time jobs, own a business, are unemployed, raising a family, etc.

The bottom line is to focus positive energy into the creation of a goal. Once you accomplish the goal you can then create another one. Don't focus on what the others are doing, you cannot go into the other teams locker nor have their playbook. Just learn your playbook like it was birthright and act upon it.

The reason why "we" can't beat "them" is because "we" believe that "they" can't be beat. We justify that belief by pointing out all of the errors and flaws of government instead of enforcing the letter of the law according to the Constitution, and hold those elected representatives accountable to the oath which they swore to uphold that same Constitution. If you can show circumstantial evidence that anyone broke the law, that is grounds for impeachment if not prosecution.

Focus on what WE are about and not THEM. Look at ways you can support what we are doing, and if you must vent about the stupidity of government, do so on blogs and op-ed pages that cater to that sort of rhetoric. I would guess that most of us came here to support doing something positive, and I myself did come for that reason and I really resent having to read all of this negative commentary. If you feel that I am wrong or out of line, you are certainly welcome to rebut my remarks. But I am sure that you are coming from the position of USMC Nam Vet who knows that he didn't receive the care or the welcome that troops enjoy today with the majority of Americans supporting their troops even when protesting the war. They may have learned something from how they treated you and many of my friends and family too.

I do not claim to have ALL the answers, nor do I profess any great wisdom beyond my years. I am only applying the experiences and skills developed through several professional careers and career changes as are other people. They are bringing their years of experience in building homes and businesses, installing soar panels and wind turbines. Others are bringing designs and prototypes of innovative ways of utilizing solar and wind power that make dependence on fuels or power companies obsolete. This is current technology and not Star Wars SF.

I am asking everyone to read the attached document The Plan to Save America and send copies to everyone that you elected as representatives in city, county, state, and federal government. We have the people right here on PP that will support the plan with their expertise, and obviously those among us will be the first applications and resumes we'll look at. But it will not be a corporation, it will be thousands of businesses that hire people to manufacture, sell, distribute, install, and use super energy efficient building products and alternative energy products for the home and business.

Just read the plan and see if it works for you.

Fred

Attachments:

• The Plan To Save America.doc, 36 KB
• Pickens Plan SEE Standards.doc, 33 KB

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Permalink Reply by Steve at Home on February 14, 2009 at 9:44pm

Fred;
Get a grip buddy. It seems that you are in less contact with reality than I am. Show me where one thing that I said was factually incorrect. You are not paranoid if they ARE out to get you. You talk about enforcing the laws and holding people accountable. What a joke. How are we now going to hold President Bush accountable for not enforcing the immigration laws for eight years and allowing twenty or thirty million illegal aliens to remain in this country? How are we goingto hold Barney Frank accountable for screwing the banking system up by forcing the banks to make subprime loans to illegals and Americans that had no ability to pay them off. He gets re elected along with the murdering Senator Kennedy by the people of Massachusetts every time. How are we going to enforce the law when our new president and his political hacks exempts the government from following the law.

So yes I do reserve the right to rant and rave and even rage against the night when I see a bill that might have actually done some good turned into a bill to hire illegals to work and buy foreign building materials. They do this while my friends in construction and manufacturing are drawing unemployment and are facing losing their homes.

The energy party group is political and this discussion is about the anger people feel when they see what is going on in Washington. If it was entitled "Lets Cheer for Obama" you might have a point but it isn't. So your resentment is misplaced. You could have just as easily went somewhere else when you saw the name of the discussion.

Your remark about my perspective as a Viet Nam Vet is wrong. When the units come back I go to the parades and tell them thanks for their service. I support and respect them like only someone who has been there can. I would just like to see them be able to get a job when they do get home.

Finally, Fred, get a sense of humor. It's the only way to keep your sanity. Or you can do like I did today and go to the dentist office and suck in the laughing gas.

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Permalink Reply by Fred Mars on February 14, 2009 at 11:09pm

I do have a sense of humor Steve, and I think it's pretty funny that you are so wrapped up in what "they" are doing that you missed my point entirely. I never indicated that you don't have the right to rant and rave (although I called in the "B" and moan rights) all I am saying is that it does nothing to solve the problem.

We are all here because we want to DO something instead of just complaining. I have spent my whole life dealing with the same government and corporate BS as all the rest of America, and believe me, I do sympathize with the plight of those that are even less fortunate than I. But I am doing whatever it takes to have those that represent me, do just that. I campaigned to get Gordon Smith ousted as Senator when he voted "Yea" for the first bailout that did not have accountability safeguards built in. Senator Wyden and Congressman DeFazio voted "Nay!"

Speaking for myself, I cannot sit and wait for something to happen or hope that Obama will make things better. While I am willing to give him every opportunity to do the right thing, there are those that you have mentioned that have been playing beltway politics for too long to go down without a fight. But unless they represent you, there is little you can do about them directly. They way you beat them is by ignoring them and getting your representatives to listen to you and do the right thing. You (and your friends, family, and neighbors) control the votes that will determine whether they will be representing you after their present term expires.

Next I'd like to address you political perspective, specifically about me. I am a card carrying, Thomas Jefferson Constitutional law abiding Libertarian, and I have NEVER subscribed to a two party system, regardless of what the media has spun it to be. I was a Ron Paul follower and did not vote for Obama or McCain because I did not feel either was the BEST for the job. My choice to back the President is an indication of my patriotism and not my political views. If politics was ever a factor I would not have chosen to back PP as T. Boone made his fortune from the very industry that got us here to begin with, along with the likes of Enron which managed to rob from its own subsidiaries and left employees nationwide without jobs or retirement accounts.

Again, you did not get what I said about troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan getting a heroes welcome, while the Viet Nam vets returned to protests and name calling. I was not even singling you out when I made the remarks I made, so I don't get why you got so much wind in your sails over it.

If anyone feels that what I say is wrong you certainly have the right to say so. But if you are going to accuse me of wrongdoing at least get the facts right about what I said. But I do offer the plan for your perusal and review.

Fred

Attachments:

• The Plan To Save America.doc, 47 KB

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Permalink Reply by Steve at Home on February 15, 2009 at 3:01pm

Fred;
Read your plan. Not one word about what I consider the biggest problem that we face which is a government that ignores the wishes of the people and it's own laws when it comes to allowing the country to be overran by illegal aliens. Nothing in your plan will work if we continue on the road to internationalism and forgit Americanism. There will be no money left to do anything.

I can chew gum and walk at the same time. I can rant and rave at the same time that I work to build wind farms here in the midwest. that is what I am working on now and will continue to work on until we are free from foreign oil.

I see no where that I accused you of wrong doing. You said that if anyone disagreed with what you said then let you know. That is what I did. I did accuse you of being wrong headed but that is different that being wrong hearted.

Something we agree on. I didn't vote for either of the last two presidential condidates. I voted for the Constitutional party myself.

We may just have to agree to disagree.

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Permalink Reply by Fred Mars on February 15, 2009 at 3:28pm

The reason there was no rant and rave is because I want to refine this document and place on the table in front of every member of the House and Senate, and get the President to see it also. I do not want to rant and rave about who's fault it is, I want to provide a positive path to getting America thriving.

I also asked that if you do not agree with me, to offer an alternative. What you offered was just criticism for not taking up the rant and rave. All I am saying is that if you want to get something from a representative, poking them in the eye before asking is not going to get positive results.

I do get what you are saying and I am not saying you are wrong. What I am saying is that there are no negative ways to accomplish positive results. If you write to ABC and they don't listen, watch CBS or NBC instead and explain to others why you no longer watch ABC. when enough other people begin to see your view, they will follow you to the other networks.

Write to your representatives openly, with letters in newspapers, sent to the local TV and radio stations, and to fellow voters. Allow as many people as you can to see how you are ignored or treated without respect. And then watch how the votes change when those reps come up for re-election. I have done this, and it does work. Calling them names or threatening them will not work, they will just see you as someone that is "never" satisfied no matter how much they do for you.

You catch more flies with honey than with manure.

Fred

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