FuelMaker/Phill strategy to exploit existing natural gas infrastructure

Comment

Comment by Hugh Hemington on February 1, 2010 at 5:26pm

I see. So the government got involved to create imbalance and make MORE government involvement necessary and desired to correct the imbalance created by earlier government involvement.
At what point do people realize that our government has become the crazy aunt that can't cook but managed to screw up every Thanksgiving turkey since they were three?

Comment by Dave Clement on February 1, 2010 at 4:39pm

Let's face reality, we are not going to have a level playing field in the near future or any time soon.
We have to have grants, incentives or credits to get over the initial hump of getting fueling or vehicles set up. Eventually it will level out.

Comment by Brian S. Siegel on February 1, 2010 at 4:30pm

Well, yes; if there were any chance in the wide, wide world that we could. Realistically, we must try for equal support.

Comment by Hugh Hemington on February 1, 2010 at 12:30pm

Isn't that a reason to get the government UNINVOLVED completely? If we don't pay for the screw-up, we won't have to pay for the fix right? If we chop off both thumbs, and all their fingers, just to be on the safe side, the scales will operate as intended.

Comment by Brian S. Siegel on February 1, 2010 at 10:53am

A reason that we "need to get the government involved" with CNG is that they already ARE involved. They put their thumb on the scale and encourage other alternatives to the detriment of CNG, which then costs us twice: first for the subsidy and later for the correction.

Comment by younkin on February 1, 2010 at 7:17am

I spoke in this meeting and it was exciting, there were no dissenting voices and it passed unanimously. I am putting together an article about the history of this Bill, I will post it on my Blog at www.younkincng.com. I need some prices for Prins kits and CNG install hardware kits, give me a call, Jim Younkin
801 427 2284

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700005651/Utah-Legislature-Regulation-of-natural-gas-conversion-kits-clears-hurdle.html?linkTrack=rss-30


SALT LAKE CITY — A House committee approved a bill Friday that will allow the state to regulate natural gas conversion kits for vehicles.

HB70 would allow inspectors at the state level to inspect and certify vehicles retrofitted to run on compressed natural gas.

Current inspections are regulated by the federal Environmental Protection Agency.

The bill's sponsor, Rep. Jack Draxler, R-North Logan, said the proposal would reduce kit costs from about $14,000 to around $6,000.

Because of the savings, Draxler said owners who retrofit their vehicles under the inspection system would not qualify for the state's fuel-efficient vehicle tax credit.

Industry representatives lined up to support the bill, saying it would ensure safety as well as cleaner air.

"This is a win-win situation," said Rob Mao, vice chairman of Certified CNG Automotive Technicians for Safety.

The proposed system would be a natural fit for Utah because of the state's natural gas reserves, air quality concerns and an abundance of certified natural gas personnel, Draxler said.

"We want emissions to be right and it to be safe, and this bill will do that," he said.

Draxler said EPA officials have expressed support for the idea of switching responsibility to the state.

— Josh Smith


--
Blog www.younkincng.com
Site www.alternativefuelconnection.com

Comment by Oscar on January 31, 2010 at 1:46pm

The basic infrastructure is available. NG is piped to the majority of residential and business locations nationwide. Only rural areas lack NG availability. City, County and other governmental agencies generally won't provide public fueling for reasons of security and/or insurance.

Home refueling is great but it won't promote the mass change that is required to get us away from importing oil.

The truck industry is great to for CNG and will get wide spread acceptance. I see the issue as having to get it local so a driver (private) can conveniently refuel and support the local economy too. (fuel, service,sales)

A local approach (and interstate) is the way to get CNG vehicles on the road and start bringing the costs of conversion parts, installation labor, and etc down.

Electric vehicles may be the end game. I just have a hard time with the climate I am in that it is a seasonal vehicle. I know that at least a seasonal vehicle is a start to that adoption. I go to th PO every day and an EV would do it for about 3 weeks on a $1 charge. Heck snowmobiles and boats are too and no one blinks at what is considered recreation. Unfortunately the majority of automotive is not considered recreation. Make driving CNG more fun and it will be cool to have it and every one will want one.

There are a lot of aspects related to the acceptance of CNG but it all goes back to the egg and the chicken. (yeah I saw that show too)

Comment by Hugh Hemington on January 31, 2010 at 11:33am

We need to come up with a better analogy than "chicken and egg" because the egg came first, since genetic mutation happens in the reproductive process.
That said, I understand there is a cycle to demand and supply, and while no incentives were required to establish gasoline stations, we now have that infrastructure, which makes it harder for CNG to break in since the "demand" for transportation is essentially covered -- it just isn't clean or efficient.
What we need is more cost-effective fueling appliances. Why would anyone buy CNG from the established commercial sites (not city-subsidized sites) for $2.25 per gge, when you can fill at home for $1.30? THAT'S where the savings is! When was the last time you had to drive more than 250 miles in a day? I've driven my Honda 270 between re-fills, and I didn't have to push it at the end.
Of course, Picken's target is the trucks, which will require large-scale refueling stations along major inter-state transit routes. Swapping out Diesel for CNG or LNG is a bigger pollution and energy independence win than trading passenger vehicles' fuel type, and the volumes of fuel used is significant, and in business, the clear financial advantage over-rides issues of convenience and aesthetics of the vehicle.
Speaking for myself, I have what I need -- a money-saving, efficient and clean vehicle I can fuel myself. I hope to have a better and cheaper fueling appliance available when my PHILL finally gives up, but ultimately, I'd really like my next car to be electric provided we have cleaner and cheaper sources of that.

Comment by Oscar on January 31, 2010 at 7:40am

I agree but it is the checken and egg situation. No vehicles, no stations, vice versa.

It takes an incentive for private business to jump on the band wagon. It is happening with the HR1835 bill but the senate has been wasting the time on health care and pushing the Nat Gas Act bill further and further into the future. Before you know it the bill wil be laden with so much pork that it won't pass.

Push the Pickens Plan as it is the only organized effort to see all this come to fruition.

I have a bi-fuel truck and can't buy public fueling CNG. It is really frustrating but the day is coming.

Soon BRC Fuel Maker will be announcing the VRA refueling equipment product availability for sales. (they said very soon) I am not sure if the Phill system will be a part of the announcement or not. BRCFM has the small starter type systems that fueling sales businesses can invest in with a low initial cost and expandable at low cost as needs increase. The common knowledge is that it a public fueling system is big and very expensive. The best option is obvious, start small and as traffic increases grow the capacity but no one seems aware of the options available. That is not to mention that most private drivers are not aware of their options for fuel either or how much $$$ they can save while helping environmentally. Oscar

Comment by Hugh Hemington on January 30, 2010 at 8:52pm

You can read 1835 on the Thomas site.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.1835:
I don't really understand why it is necessary though. I have an NGV, and I didn't need any incentives to get me to buy it. It saves me money. CNG is already a winner. Why do we need to get the government to "pick it"? Invariably when the government gets involved, it hoses everything up anyway.

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