Large Scale Centralized Energy Production vs Small Community Owned Systems

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Michael Shawn Kendall on February 13, 2009 at 8:23am

Christopher, There is problems with small scale personally owned electric producing systems. They can and do work for some but typically it is for people who live off the grid and are willing to pay the extra money. There is proven economy in scale with the large turbines, solar trough plants, and hyrdroelectric dams. Also, in our modern age many have to comply with HOA's (home owners associations). In states that have substantial tax subsidies, such as California that is in the sunbelt, solar panels have proven affordable for those who can afford the initial installation. But for people who work and live in apartments or do not anticipate living for more than a few years it is not even an option for them even they are in California. The best overall solution is the large turbines, large solar trough plants, hydroelectric dams, and for those that can afford and accomodate the solar panels.
This group was not created for bonds or financing the actual installation but instead for how to get the production capability up in our country. One step towards that is to train the professionals who will be maintaining, producing, and designing the systems. Of course, there is financing involved in all of that for certain.
Best Regards,
Mike Kendall

Permalink Reply by James Everitt on February 13, 2009 at 8:29am

Creating more green jobs has multiple benefits. It helps the economy as a whole; it helps our environment; and it will save you money.

Stay tuned for more information on green jobs following the Middle Class Task Force’s, first meeting on February 27, 2009 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

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H.R. 1: House Stimulus Package - Free Legal Forms

PS: Don't have time to read all 647 pages? Shame, shame. Still, this bill is mostly a combination of bills moved through three major committees. Summaries of each section can be found here, here and here.

CREATE JOBS WITH CLEAN, EFFICIENT, AMERICAN ENERGY

To put people back to work today and reduce our dependence on foreign oil tomorrow, we will make investments aimed at doubling renewable energy production and renovate public buildings to make them more energy efficient.

! Reliable, Efficient Electricity Grid: $11 billion for research and development, pilot projects, and federal matching funds for the Smart Grid Investment Program to modernize the electricity grid making it more efficient, secure, and reliable and build new power lines to transmit clean, renewable energy from sources throughout the nation.

! Renewable Energy Loan Guarantees: $8 billion for loans for renewable energy power generation and transmission projects.

! GSA Federal Buildings: $6.7 billion for renovations and repairs to federal buildings including at least $6 billion focused on increasing energy efficiency and conservation. Projects are selected based on GSA’s ready-to-go priority list.

! Local Government Energy Efficiency Block Grants: $6.9 billion to help state and local governments make investments that make them more energy efficient and reduce carbon emissions.

! Energy Efficiency Housing Retrofits: $2.5 billion for a new program to upgrade HUD sponsored lowincome housing to increase energy efficiency, including new insulation, windows, and furnaces. Funds will be competitively awarded.

! Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Research: $2 billion for energy efficiency and renewable energy research, development, demonstration, and deployment activities to foster energy independence, reduce carbon emissions, and cut utility bills. Funds are awarded on a competitive basis to universities, companies, and national laboratories.

! Advanced Battery Loans and Grants: $2 billion for the Advanced Battery Loan Guarantee and Grants Program, to support U.S. manufacturers of advanced vehicle batteries and battery systems. America should lead the world in transforming the way automobiles are powered.

! Department of Defense Efficiency: $1.8 billion for efforts to make our military bases more energy efficient, beyond benefits that will come from replacing and repairing facilities.

! Energy Efficiency Grants and Loans for Institutions: $1.5 billion for energy sustainability and efficiency grants and loans to help school districts, institutes of higher education, local governments, and municipal utilities implement projects that will make them more energy efficient.

! Home Weatherization: $6.2 billion to help low-income families reduce their energy costs by weatherizing their homes and make our country more energy efficient.

! Smart Appliances: $300 million to provide consumers with rebates for buying energy efficient Energy Star products to replace old appliances, which will lower energy bills.

! GSA Federal Fleet: $600 million to replace older vehicles owned by the federal government with alternative fuel automobiles that will save on fuel costs and reduce carbon emissions.

! Electric Transportation: $200 million for a new grant program to encourage electric vehicle technologies.

! Cleaning Fossil Energy: $2.4 billion for carbon capture and sequestration technology demonstration projects. This funding will provide valuable information necessary to reduce the amount of carbon dioxide emitted into the atmosphere from industrial facilities and fossil fuel power plants.

! Department of Defense Research: $350 million for research into using renewable energy to power weapons systems and military bases.

! Alternative Buses and Trucks: $400 million to help state and local governments purchase efficient alternative fuel vehicles to reduce fuel costs and carbon emissions.

! Industrial Energy Efficiency: $500 million for energy efficient manufacturing demonstration projects.

! Diesel Emissions Reduction: $300 million for grants and loans to state and local governments for projects that reduce diesel emissions, benefiting public health and reducing global warming. This includes technologies to retrofit emission exhaust systems on school buses, replace engines and vehicles, and establish anti idling programs. 70% of the funds go to competitive grants and 30% funds grants to states with approved programs. Last year EPA was able to fund only 27% of the applications received.

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Attachments:

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• A_New_Energy_Economy.pdf, 3.3 MB

Permalink Reply by Todd McKissick on February 13, 2009 at 10:13am

All that is needed from the Federal government is to revamp the SBA & grant processes. Simply pay unemployed business managers to assist the SBA in helping all the businesses that people want help starting up and then if a business passes that stage, give them a 3% interest loan with easy extensions on the repayment terms. That's all that people want.

As it stands now, the grants go to large corporations and to professional research facilities (which public universities fall under). Either the big companies do good with this money or nothing gets done because none of the others have any incentive to ever commercialize their research.

Permalink Reply by Chris Tidman on February 13, 2009 at 8:21pm

People who live in apartments can still pool their resources to build an alternate energy system anywhere that can earn a return selling to the grid. There are all kinds of subsidies, start up funding and grants to create all kinds of things. It really just needs enough individuals to form a group to make it happen. If enough small groups build enough small systems, there will be no need for large systems with large transmission lines. Large central generators lose as much as 2/3 of the energy input before it gets to the user. When voltage has to be increased for transmission and then reduced for the user there are fewer points at which power can be put into and taken out of the system. The smart grid is actually a network of little grids, operating at lower voltages and each one can have its own generator. The smart grid system is more reliable and secure.

As we make things more energy efficient and more environmentally friendly, we will be eliminating jobs in the old economy; the one that has just collapsed. The new jobs being created in a green economy don't have the big pay checks, which will reduce Government income and force Government to also become much more efficient. Green economy jobs don't need such large salaries because they don't have the enormous overhead of so much Government, advisors, administrators, accountants, controllers, researchers, ................The stimulus package is an attempt to make things the way they were, not the way they should be.

Permalink Reply by Michael Shawn Kendall on February 14, 2009 at 1:12am

Hi Christopher, In areas that are largely farming/out in the countryside and have excellent wind potential I am a true believer in small wind systems. I actively follow the otherpower group and have every book I could find on homebrewing wind turbines. The "Dan's" at otherpower and Hugh Piggot have definitely made it affordable for someone on a farm with decent wind to make their own. Right now, as it stands, their designs are limited to islanding grid-tie. This means that you produce 48VDC into a battery bank then run a grid-tie inverter into the grid. There are commercial small direct grid tied but I personally would probably not be interested due to the cost per watt. I have seen continuous improvements with small homebrew turbines and expect soon there will be a direct grid tie design for homebrewers.
I also anticipate a soon jump in concentrated solar technologies. I believe there is a boom soon to happen the same way wind has taken off, maybe even bigger than wind.
Thanks for making the discussion group.
Best Regards,
Mike Kendall

Permalink Reply by Chris Tidman on February 14, 2009 at 10:05am

Michael.
What is the difference between making something for $1.00 and giving 10 cents to the tax man, 10 cents to the operator, 10 cents to the delivery system, 10 cents to the owner, and making something for 80 cents and keeping it all yourself ? You may as well create a job for yourself. The best investment in machinery is the one that creates something that you use yourself. This is the whole incentive/stategy for having the US make its own energy. Why would it be different logic just because we are talking about one person instead of many ? Control of the energy is the problem, not so much how much it costs.

Permalink Reply by Todd McKissick on February 15, 2009 at 4:39pm

Christopher,

The biggest difference is the control that you speak of. The larger the project's electrical output, the more control the utilities are going to have over it. If you suppliment your needs with anything less than you need, you can benefit the most, but as you start exporting more and more to "their" system, you'll find more controls that strip your profits.

It is for this reason, that we need new technologies to hit the market. Rest assured they are available and just waiting for some help getting going. Our company hid a small paragraph about putting our profits toward bringing new technologies online and we've been contacted by many project creators out of the blue. The only problem is allowing (and raising the passion level of) large groups of individuals to get involved to make it happen without looking to the government or any sort of big money.

I find it very curious that tens of thousands of people will spend 2-3 hours each day being active to raise awareness of a fight in DC for them to vote a certain way so this magic money can fix the problem but they won't consider a short discussion on getting people to self fund the end projects. On top of that, they'll even donate to their favorite politicians but when the topic of donation to anything energy related comes up, they won't spend a dime unless they're making more return than a Madoff client did last year!