LED LIGHTING

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Comment by Al Toman on October 11, 2009 at 1:08pm

We hope to launch our web site shortly. I'll post the url here when we publish the web site. I'm also looking for artisans in the trades, in marketing, and in electronics. I'm trying to get it "right" before I publish the web site because if I goof up, it could kill our company :o(

Dee, Believe you me, I know that it is difficult. I know what you are up against. Hopefully, with people like you, we can get it right and let the LED shine :o)












Minor setbacks :o)

Comment by Dee Miller on October 11, 2009 at 11:58am

Al: See, this is what I mean. It is great your company is doing this, but how would anyone know about it or even that what is offered NEEDS to be done? I only learned about this because of my association with Pickens' Plan and the coincidence that you joined this group.

Comment by stanley kul on October 11, 2009 at 11:20am

hey Al its stanley do you have a website or some where i could look at your stuff
thanks

Comment by Al Toman on October 11, 2009 at 10:39am

Retailers have one thing in mind. Your money. Period.

Most of the reps in the retail store are people off the street. Nice people. But they don't know anything about lighting, particularly LED lighting. They only know the BUZZ words to get your money.

I build solar (or mains) powered LED light systems for commercial applications. Each system is designed to the user's spec or use.

That means that you cannot come to my store and carry out a bunch of LED fixtures, then stick them in the ground like you can at your favorite big box store. Then the lights don't work if it's cloudy or whatever.

We guarantee ours because we use simple mathematics to design your system. We show you the math. We explain the cautions about batteries and solar panels, and what you can expect from your system.

Best of all, we don't focus on your money. We focus on you and your objective. Better, we don't have one single pissed-off customer.

Our web site is in development. Shortly, we'll have everything you will need for a successful project whether you buy from us or not. When you leave our store, you'll leave with a hecka lotta knowledge if nothing else and you'll have the math to back it up. Don't take our word for it. Your favorite engineer WILL certify our work. Guaranteed.

Then at least you'll have one or two over your favorite retailer.

Best of luck in your endeavors and never give up!

Comment by Dee Miller on October 11, 2009 at 10:15am

I think the consumer is getting a bad rap here. I have never heard any of the stuff you two have written here before. I have only read or heard ads from retailers and they don't mention any thing about the power supply or angles; nothing but how many more hours the bulbs last and how much less electricity they will use. If anyone had tried to clue me in before this, I would have taken the ball and run with it just like I'm going to now. Just like Rumsfeld said, "you don't know what you don't know," so how can you know enough to know there's something more to learn about it? I'm not a fan of Rummy's but, sometimes his inane excuses for his behavior are better suited to simpler matters - like this one. Thanks a lot guys. There's no substitute for knowledge and I appreciate your patience with me. I'm going to spread the word whenever I get the opportunity.

I keep running up against a thought some author wrote out there and I can't remember his name, but what he wrote on government oversight has a great deal of truth in it and almost every other facet of our lives as well. I paraphrase here:

The American people are allowed to believe ANYTHING they want, but they aren't allowed (required) to KNOW the truth about anything.

Comment by Eric Koch on October 10, 2009 at 5:09pm

Al knows his stuff,

Dee wrote:
"UNLESS - you are saying we can get the light bulbs much cheaper by having the power supply built in and then being able to use the cheaper light bulbs that would now last longer and not take as much power."

Yes, that is what i'm saying...

driver=power supply...to translate between Al's and my terminology...and like Al said... a little home work and a carefully selected system designer/installer will definitely pay off, both in the short and long term.

Comment by Al Toman on October 10, 2009 at 11:25am

LED are point source lighting. They are diodes (transistors of sorts). Their light is directional versus thrown throughout the room like an incandescent or fluorescent. This is called the angle of view. The smaller the angle of view, the brighter the LED.

LED with wider angles of view are being created basically to satisfy the consumer's hunger to simply replace the old bulbs. This is highly inefficient but it is the way people think. Oh well. We lose but at least it will get people closer to what should be done.

Driving LED takes a certain amount of power. Again, you would use the driver that best fits your application.

Replacement LED have drivers that are built in.

Again, LED are diodes, they operate on direct current, DC, not AC. LED require very little DC energy. You are feeding AC to your replacement LED, therefore, it requires a driver to convert that AC to DC, then, to protect the LED fro frying. This takes (wasted) energy. It is best to wire for DC. Solar panels work on DC. That is why LED and solar are an excellent match.

If you are building a new structure, request low voltage wiring for your lighting.
It doesn't cost anything more than your typical household wiring. The problem you will have is finding someone who knows what they are doing and who won't make a big deal out of it. I learned low voltage household wiring in 1978. Not a big deal.

Ideally, it is important to know each application and use the LED that best fits that application. For example, my office would typically be fitted with at least 2-4 bulb drop-in ceiling fluorescent fixtures. That's close to 400 watts including the power supplies that drive fluorescents.

If I conduct a light plan for my office, I can replace those units with 1-4 foot LED replacement T8 bulb or 2-2 foot LED bulbs. I can get the same job done for only 18 watts. But that requires planning for efficiency. Cost wise, it is less expensive then just screwing out the old and screwing in the new.

I've studied light since 1972. Using LED, one has to learn how to look at light differently then the old incandescent way that we've grown up with. Incandescent and other commonly used bulbs, today, are a bad habit, addiction. They are an easy fix and people like easy. Not cool.

The most difficult aspect of LED is educating the population. The second is finding a knowledgeable and honest provider. There are a few out there, so beware. If you have unlimited funding, do it easy. If not, think it out and you'll get good results.

Comment by Dee Miller on October 10, 2009 at 10:46am

Wow! Who would have guessed that there was so much to it! In the past, I just call C Crane Co, order the bulbs and screw them in. That has saved me money already. I am thinking we need to go ahead and install the light bulbs for now, save the money from our monthly power bills now being about 1/3 lower and not needing to buy new light bulbs again for years and THEN buying and installing the power supplies with our savings. UNLESS - you are saying we can get the light bulbs much cheaper by having the power supply built in and then being able to use the cheaper light bulbs that would now last longer and not take as much power. Please hold my hand here, I am mentally handicapped when it comes to electricity, and all those important things men are born knowing . . .

Comment by Eric Koch on October 10, 2009 at 10:19am

Hey Dee,

good to see another soldier of efficiency climbing into their field gear...

the thing that most people don't realize about LED lighting(the screw in replacement type) is that most of the cost lies in the unseen *power supply* that is integrated into each unit...

if your school or offices goal then is to convert to LED lighting entirely the place to start would be dedicated external lighting power supplies..

http://www.excelsys.com/products/shelf_power.html?gclid=CJSZiun5sp0CFSMNDQodty46iQ

or

http://www.ecolightled.com/category/led_power_supplies/?r=g_powers

for example).....this approach will reduce your over all conversion cost, and improve serviceability down the road.

as for disposing of the old systems consult your local recycling establishments:-)

Comment by Dee Miller on October 9, 2009 at 10:21pm

Hi, Everyone at the LED group. I am looking for information on the best way to dispose of other lighting when we replace all our existing incandescent and fluorescent lighting with LED's. Anyone have any suggestions where I might find this kind of info? We are going on a village wide campaign to use the money from recycling to help cover the expense of conversion to LED's beginning with our schools and government offices.

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