There doesn't seem to be much going on here?

There doesn't seem to be much going on in here concerning anything about what has been said by Mr. Pickens.
I agree that he seems to have a good idea, but I think there is a bit of mass over-simplification going on here. There is no magic wand we can wave to do any of what has been said? There is no mention of a candidate to back? Is Mr. Pickens the candidate? If so he needs to be a little more clear in what he's saying.
More information has to come out than just a few rousing statements that stir the blood. There has to be some intelligent fact that can produce some actual beneficial conversation before anything can come out.

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by jay waite on July 10, 2008 at 5:56pm: Frogman,
Thanks for your service to our country, much appreciated and I hope we have a strong contingent of Military personel, active and retired that join into this group or other groups.
After my blood was stirred and I reviewed the site I thought it good that T. Boone didn't push any one specific agenda. Let's face it, investing $2 billion in wind turbines and creating wind farms I was coming to some conclusions on the "why" behind the efforts. However after discussing with some friends, the platform he has created is intriguing to me. I myself have opinions regarding solar and the potential to use it more in the future, however with the FL solar tax incentives drying up quickly and the waiting list long, I believe if we continue to have conversations and willing to invest time in reviewing the information, potentially taking the message to city, state or higher officials, maybe we can make a difference for my son's generation. I think just discussing and getting to know the facts is a great first step.
Other than that, I guess the only intelligent fact is we do need to discuss. (If we could get the government to invest more in Solar tax incentives, it would be a win for FL, wind?, not so much, just my humble.)
Thanks,
Jay; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by A on July 10, 2008 at 6:35pm: It would be nice to see more organization, ideas on implementation, not just conversation.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Mark on July 10, 2008 at 7:43pm: Duke,
My take on this site isn’t political and I don’t see this site pointing to one presidential candidate or another. However, I have been studying Renewable Energy for 6 years now and quickly learned our situation is without a doubt political and not technical. I also know other societies (Germany and Norway) are some of the biggest users of Renewable Energy and have been doing so for decades and in some cases 3 or 4 generations of families have been using these technologies.

There are dozens upon dozens of people I have personally talked to around the world living “Off The Grid” or the new term “Green” not because they want to hug a tree but simply because they have no other choice. From harvesting cow manure for methane in India to home made wind generators in Norway. There are 18 year old college students at Ohio State who made an electric car “The Buckeye Bullet” that has broken the current land speed record. That one car alone has improved the use of battery technology 10 fold easy. This site allows all these like minded people to talk in one place. Just think all that talking has to generate at least one good Idea.

As for the political aspect the site has been up for two days and almost 20,000 people have been moved to join. So when Mr. Pickens says we don’t have much time. I think he knows numbers talk and any politician looking at this site will quickly know the American people want to divorce themselves from the situation they have found themselves in and assure this issue doesn’t come back to haunt us.

Give this site a chance. I think if you are looking for the site to tell you who to vote for you may be disappointed but I do think the shear number of people will force whoever gets the Big Job to know the people have spoken and the American people know Oil is only one solution to energy. Depending on Oil as our primary source is a lazy habit that is typicality American and this must and can change. Even China has embraced Renewable Energy with a “Piss Your Feet are on Fire” attitude to the point they are the third leading country standing up more wind farms (By Megawatts). You will be happy to know the US is in second place. So this is happening with or without TBPickens.

I believe the value of this site will be the exchange of knowledge and the ability to show the next president that there are thousands if not millions of people who know Energy is an extremely important topic that will need to be address or else . Anyway the people who know we are smart enough to climb our way out of the situation have know for years the American people would have to experience the pain before anyone would stop their TiVo and pay attention. Thank God for 4 Bucks a gallon and TBPickens for creating a place where we can assemble and start making the changes we need.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by John Daley on July 11, 2008 at 8:02am: I think that it is important not to get into politics and start fighting over who to vote for and are you on the left or the right. We will not get anything accomplished that way and this is too important of a problem. We must put aside of differences and work together to make this country independent again. Washington will not solve this problem, we have to do it ourselves. With a little more time I hope that a plan will come together that we can all get behind and support, and that will move us as fast as possible toward energy independence.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Frogman on July 12, 2008 at 9:10am: Actually, all I was trying to do was to get some conversation going, ansd it seemed to work.

Thank you, Jay, You're welcome. I did it through love of country and family tradition. There's always been one or two of us in the military somewhere. Right now my daughter and oldest son are just retiring. I have a grandson about to go in. I'm trying to talk him out of the SEALs but that's what he wants and I'm afraid he might just qualify.

And Mark, I don't trust people who tell my who to vote for. I was rather hoping as Kevin said that one of the candidates would come out in support of this idea.

I'm really into alternate power options myself. I've designed a Solar Heater for the home that I plan to have ready for sale, at least the plans on how to build it yourself, on the Internet, within a month. It's cost effective, less than a $100 to build, uses no power and just mounts in a south facing window. I'm also getting into a wind generation system for my home. Right now I'm working up my load base so I can have an idea what kind of battery system I'll need and how much of a generation system I'll need. Looking at the PACWIND system. They're at PACWIND.COM. They're the people that Jay Leno used to set up his place out in CA. I've checked them out and they have a good reputation. I figure between the wind-generator, as we really don't have that great a standard daily wind rate here in Jacksonville, and a set of solar collectors I can generate enough power to knock out my electric bill completely.

I would consider that a worthwhile goal for any of us.

I keep hearing people yelling about these big SUVs and how terrable they are. Well, I drive a big Ford Explorer. Big Six Cylinder Engine with all the options. Until two months ago I was getting 15 city and 20 highway like most everyone else. That's not too bad considering the comfort of a big ride.
BUT I knocked off my jackrabbit starts and stops and slowed down on the Interstate to 55 mph. What I do is keep my RPM at below 2500. Usually I keep it below 2000. Sometimes you just can't keep it down to the 2k mark but I don't go above 2.5k, ever. I've had a few people get mad at me but I stay in the right lane, I always use cruise control, and I just put along minding my own business. You'd be surprised at how my mileage has done. I've gone from 15 city 20 highway to 21 city and 27 highway. That's four tank fulls of gas that I have checked it out on and it comes up that way each time.

Now that Explorer has been paid for for a couple of years. It looks like new, runs like new so why should I trade it for something costing $25-30,000 that won't get any better milage of maybe another 5 mpg better than what I get now? I'm 65 years old. Will I even live long enough to break even, let alone get ahead?

Don't cry about the high cost of gas, do something about it. Take your foot out of the carbarotor and slow down. The mpg I picked up works out to an extra 120 miles in every tank of gas. At 20 miles per gallon that's an extra five gallons of gas for free. At $4.00 a gallon, that sounds like a savings of about $25 on every tank of gas to me. Just by slowing down by 20 miles an hour and not trying to play Mario Andretti at the traffic lights. I admit it was hard to get used to but the extra money wasn't.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Mark on July 12, 2008 at 4:59pm: Well Frogman you got us talking.... congrats.
I have been looking at alternatives since 9-11. I have a hard time doing business with people who want us off the face of the earth. With that said, I have studied and talked to a ton of people. So Frogman perhaps since you are the one that got us talking you should pick a place and time where we can meet and start brain draining each other. I am well versed in Thermal solar, Geo thermal, Thin film solar and Biomass. I have property in Middleburg and I am off grid the easy way RV and only plan to build exclusively off grid. I actually started a site myself but when I saw this site I knew it will do exactly what I wanted mine to do but with One Great Big Giant Leap that I couldn’t possibly match. So here I am. Currently I am interested in a vehicle that will get me 80 miles a day electric and the Ovshinsky Hydrogen Economy. Let me know when and where and I’d be glad to show up.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Frogman on July 13, 2008 at 9:48am: Well, it looks like we're up to a whopping two of us. I think we need a few more here. I live on the Southside near the Avenues.

I started out by trying to come up with a way to heat my pool when we lived in Middleburg several years ago. I did it but it was rather crude and not terribly trustworthy but for my first attempt at solar power I was happy. It produced hot water hot enough to burn your hand and a steady stream. Kept my pool nice and warm all year round. It took a lot of maintenance but it worked.

Later I tried some of the same ideas and came up with my solar heater for air. I never thought there would be a market for it but now I think that has changed. Looks like there might just be a really good market out there now.

Have you seen the car that looks like an airplane without wings that is being produced in California? It gets 80 mpg and is perfectly street legal. The guy isn't selling them outside CA. yet and has quite a waiting list as I understand. They're showing up in a lot of commercials. They only cost around $35k. When I first saw one I immediately wanted one. They not only look good but at 80 mpg they sound good and if California will license them for the street they can't be too bad.

I do believe that Hydrogen is going to be our only way to go. It's by far the most plentyful of the possible fuels out there and will fit more easily into our current supply systems than anything else except the E85 which is a total waste of time and money. Hydrogen's waste product is something we're a little short of to boot.

The E85 is going to kill us financially. It's not much cheaper than standard fuel. You don't get as good gas mileage with it as you do with standard gasoline, and it wears out your engine much faster as it eats up such parts as valves and things much quicker than regular gasoline does. Besides the fact that the nearest public E85 station to Jacksonville is in Lake City!

Come on people, lets get some more folks in here. It takes more than two!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by John R on July 15, 2008 at 10:59am: Just heard the radio ad and came to see what it was about. JEA is building a new electric plant, but with the same old expensive fuel. Who makes these decisions?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Frogman on July 15, 2008 at 4:46pm: Well, it darn sure isn't one of us! You can take that to the bank. When was the last time anyone in Jacksonville had a chance to get a say-so in anything that made a difference? We get to vote only on things that they know will pass because of the pressure they put out, like last tax bill. That was an obvious situation. The fee hikes to replace it were in place before the vote was even taken.

Here we go again. The people don't stand a chance.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Glen A Johnson on July 16, 2008 at 7:23pm: Just joined this group. Been a member of South Florida, since I didn't know this group existed. You might want to join that one also, since you can join more than one. I'm down in Gainesville. The talk in South Florida is about how to hook up solar and not worry about hurricanes, (which this part of hasn't seen in 20 plus years), and the fact that nobody want's wind farms in there back yards. Most of them down there don't realize there is so much acreage up here in the north, we could put up wind farms up for miles and no one would ever see them. (South florida is, to me, house to house.) Well, it's more than just the two of you.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Frogman on July 17, 2008 at 1:10pm: I can't understand all of these people not want a wind farm around? I'm getting ready to put a wind generator on my roof. Not going to use the big propeller blades but the smaller turbine style. It's about the size of an outside A/C unit. I wouldn't even mind having a wind farm around though. I guess it's the same mind set that's against off-shore drilling. It'll make the beach look bad, even though you won't be able to see the rigs from any beach hotel top floor no matter how tall the building.

Ya can't please everyone.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by V on July 18, 2008 at 3:49pm: Ha guy, could you tell me more about the wind generator? Where to buy, benefits,
etc.. I am investingating geothermal heat and cool system for my home. Could this
unit go above a high two story home. A wind farm sounds great I have the property
for it.; ▶ Reply to This