There doesn't seem to be much going on here?

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Permalink Reply by claire s poulsen on August 12, 2008 at 7:21am

Wind power and solar power have been used in Denmark, Sweden, Norway and some European countries for years. Seems to me, that the only thing we have to conquer in this country is the red tape, the greedy utilitiy co, and greedier politicians. We, as a country, don't have to INVENT windpower, or solar power. We just have to reach out to those who already do it and say, "SHOW US" how to switch over. Let's' hire their professionals and bring them to America! We have no right to be aloof and full of ourselves as a country anymore. It IS a simple being made hard by the OIL BARRONS and those on their payroll. If one ruthless "oilman" wants to switch sides, and help us accomplish something that already exists and works in other countries......let's all get behind him.
We will all save money in the long run. Claire Amelia Island, FL

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Permalink Reply by Frogman on August 13, 2008 at 6:03pm

Our biggest stonewall is the politicians for sure. Our elected leaders have this tendency to say they are listening to us and working for us and then not to listen to us at all. "Mz. Chairman who won't let a vote come up on anything in the house," for instance, and her cohort who leads the Democrats are in one corner. In the other corner we have the Republican bunch not listening either. Between them, they have a firm choke hold on getting anything accomplished.

Somehow we need to get someone to listen and understand, then work towards the idea that America needs some help! The people are tired of high priced gasoline, soaring food, and a rotten economy.

If another Economist tells me there is no recession going on because it doesn't fit the model or definition, I'll probably punch him, or her, in the nose. I don't care what it doesn't fit. More people are out of work than we have seen in a long long time. Our dollar is falling in value like a hot rock. Sales of just about everything are in a really bad slump. Even GM could wind up declaring bankruptcy! Their stock is at its lowest in over fifty years! Jobs are as scarce as chicken lips. Housing sales are so down it's embarrassing. I've lost, like a lot of other people, over a third of the value of the home I own. Sure, the price of gas has dropped, but that's because no one can afford to buy it without taking out a second mortgage that they can't get because the money market is too tight they can't get a loan! Don't try to tell me the economy is fine! It obviously isn't!

We have the technology at hand to end this problem. It won't happen fast. It will take a little time. So lets get started NOW. We have actually had it for years. We have been capable of countering this fiasco long before it started but our love of the automobile and the greed of big oil, and a lot of speculators and others beyond name has not let it come to pass.

The almighty dollar rules. It will continue to rule. At least until we can override greed enough to get the situation turned around.

I don't see how we are going to accomplish that one necessary factor. The banishment of greed. I am open to suggestions.

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Permalink Reply by Mark on August 15, 2008 at 7:50pm

Don’t banish greed. Once you educate people that there are other ways to supply energy for heat and transportation you are going to need it in order to supply what they are going to demand. Necessity is the mother of invention but greed brings it to the masses.
Greed is Good!!!! Oil Lazy is Bad and we are Oil Lazy because we don’t have an energy plan.

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Greene on August 19, 2008 at 9:57am

Mr Bruderly is referring at least initially to www.wisegasinc.com we are bringing NGVs into Florida. Check out our site and let me know if it makes sense to you after that.

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Permalink Reply by David Borje on September 10, 2008 at 6:26am

Duke;

I agree. This internet thing can only go so far. To make this thing happen, a little more clarity and alternative efforts have to be made.

DRB

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Permalink Reply by Gary Munson on September 12, 2008 at 4:27am

A, here are some ideas on implementing energy saving strategies...We each need to start doing something that matters. Starting with your own energy consumption is something that you can do and will put money back in your pocket as well as help our overall situation....Gary.

Currently the U.S. is sending an exorbitant portion of it's energy money overseas. Anyone who does not take some initiative to cut their power bill (and therefore energy usage) needs to realize that they are providing 'aide and comfort' to those who would love to see us dead and are taking great delight in our current difficulty. Drilling for more domestic oil is not the panacea for this mess as prices are not being controlled by the mechanism of supply and demand, rather by a combination of speculators and OPEC who control such a large portion of the world's oil supply that they can easily negate any of our drilling efforts by simply closing the tap at their end just a little. Any oil we produce won't save us any money. We currently produce a large amount of oil in Alaska but do you see us getting a break on it because it's domestic? No, we pay the going world rate, set by the aforementioned OPEC and speculators...and provide another windfall for the oil companies. They sit before Congress smiling saying their huge profits are necessary to allow them to explore....excuse me....we are talking about NET PROFITS here...what's left AFTER exploration expenses. We the people have no control over this sort of manipulation of our government, whether we have Republicans or Democrats in charge. . .there's too much money involved. Our only hope is to cut energy usage, not drill and give them more avenues for profit. We all need to realize the best thing we can all do to help the energy situation and economy is to take individual action. Rather than waiting around for the government to do something we can each cut our electric usage dramatically....up to one half of your bill if you are willing to spend a little time and money. Every time you see your power bill shrinking, that's money for you rather than some oil producer. Money you can spend here to help the economy or save as you prefer. Here are several sites worth visiting that aren't selling anything but tell it like it is. Plenty of simple and painless techniques to cut your power bill.

http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/

Mr. 'Bluejay' does a great job explaing away a lot of scams...see his section on surge suppressors for example.

http://www.builditsolar.com/index.htm

Be sure to look at the 'Half' program.


The current situation has people grasping at all sorts of non-cost effective solutions that sound great on paper but don't hold up to scrutiny in the real world. Solar electricity is one of those as would be wind power in cent. Florida. Solar PV (photo voltaic) just costs too much at the present. Hopefully ongoing research will change that in the future but it's not ready for prime time yet. The rental program below will probably be practical if it gets underway.

Check out this site for info on a possible contender for solar PV at home.

http://renu.citizenre.com/index.php?c=1218495642


The 'Build it Solar' site also has some good info about costs.

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/PV/pv.htm


Plenty of outright scams getting too much press also. The 'run your car on water' crowd is one I can think of (apparently many people didn't pay attention in high school physics). A good site explaining the physics that negates that scheme is here along with other interesting info about some of those behind the current revival.

http://www.alternative-energy-resources.net/browns-gas-the-reality....

Another scam that's been revived is the 'phase controller' that supposedly saves electricity by making motors run more efficiently. Home show demonstrations with an electric motor show it's electricity usage dropping dramatically when the motor is plugged into the device rather than straight into the incoming power. These devices actually do work in the applications they are designed for...this has the unfortunate effect of helping the scammers (or to give them the benefit of the doubt, uneducated-in-electricity folk) sell these things. An industrial application that produces savings would be a big table saw in a woodworking shop that runs constantly. When it's not cutting wood, the motor is under no load and at that moment, a phase controller will save energy. The goal of electrical engineers is to make sure anything with a motor runs that motor at rated capacity at all times...that's the point a motor is most efficient. Their striving for this is what has made ACs and refrigerators much more efficient lately. The point here is motors in your home all run at rated load all the time. There is no 'off load' time like with the big table saw. A 'phase controller' saves nothing in this situation.

In hot climates a proven strategy that works well is a heat recovery unit attached to your AC unit. It provides free hot water and also increases the efficiency of the AC a couple of SEER points by reducing head pressure (and electricity draw) on the compresser. You're paying for your A/C to move a great deal of heat out of your house, you might as well use that heat to provide you with hot water. Adding one of these to an older AC unit that still runs well is a good way to cut $30-$50 off your monthly power bill during AC season (which here in cent Fl can be about 9 months). The neatest thing about this solution is that it's cost-negative. In addition to being free hot water as opposed to other 'high efficiency' heaters that still consome energy, it actually lowers your cost of air conditioning. Here is a manufacturer's site for two of these and a power company document about it as well. The second mfg site has a neat calculator for your savings...but my experience shows it to be somewhat under-optomistic. I don't think it's taking into account how a hru will improve your AC's efficiency. There are claims that they don't work with higher efficiency unit, but I have two HRU connected to 13 SEER heat pumps that provide plenty of hot water.

http://www.trevormartin.com/about.asp

http://www.turbotecproducts.com/EPhome.html

http://www.p2pays.org/ref/11/10104.pdf

Another real saver in hot areas is a radiant barrier in the attic or metal roof. Both create similar savings. If you are re-roofing, consider changing to a metal roof. When installed over a normal wood-decked roof, noise is not a problem. Most people thinking of a noisy metal roof have heard one that's been installed over wood 'stringers' as was the case many years ago...very noisy in a rainstorm. If you have a hip roof house or a lot of dormers metal may be too costly due to the waste from all the cutting to fit...metal is most cost effective on a two-slope 'shed type' roof. Radiant barriers can either be installed during construction..an easy way is using foil-backed plywood roof decking ...or added later. See this site for info and material.

http://www.atticfoil.com/

Tankless water heating is also a problem area for accurate claims of savings. A gas tankless heater can be much more efficient since it eliminates the flue that passes through the center of a conventional tank heater and becomes a chimney to carry away your water's heat once the flame shuts off. Electrics are another story... Big savings are claimed that are not supported by data. No studies are shown that give specifics telling you what make/model/year tank unit is being compared with the advertised tankless. Maybe they use an ancient cast iron tank heater insulated with sawdust? Verifiable details please. Somehow electric tankless heaters dodge the requirement for the yellow government 'EnerGuide' label that every other appliance must have. If they had to carry it, their claims would show to be false. Claims of better durability because of 'no tank' are a red herring also...the 'tank' still exists, only it's now smaller. Buildup from hard water deposits may be more of an issue with tankless, possible surcharges from the power company later due to high instantaneous current draw, heavy wiring needed, new construction with planned tankless can make retrofit of tank type later very difficult due to lack of dedicated hot water piping, incompatability with future solar or other alternative power sources due to aforementioned high current draw. These are all serious disavantages of the tankless electric. All electric hot water heaters are 100% efficient at heating water. That's a function of an electric element immersed in water. The only added efficiency of a tankless is the reduction of standby losses which are very minimal in new technology insulated tank heaters. Put your hand on one and you'll see they pretty much run at room temperature...very little standby loss.


Another myth is that shading a A/C condenser saves '10-20% or more. The reality is not much. Similar situation to a garden hose left out in the sun...you turn on the water and what comes out is scalding hot....but in a few moments the water is cool...sun impinging on something will make it very hot but that is a function of 'accumulated heat'. What heat is striking something and being carried away by a fan is very small. See the following link about this subject...

http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/publications/html/FSEC-PF-302-96/index.htm


A free, online calculator that can help you plan upgrades is here:

http://hes.lbl.gov/


Two technologies have the potential to really turn things around..see these two links for something both companies say will arrive sometime next year...Still better to get moving with your own plan that to wait with your fingers crossed..

http://www.eestorbatteries.com/

http://www.nanosolar.com/


Please use due diligence when deciding on ways to save energy. There are LOTS of scams out there. The internet is a great source of info and you can easily see both points of view on any energy saving strategy. Just simple conservation by time-tested means is still the best way to approach our dilemma. If we all cut our power bill in half, we'd all have much more money in our pocket and our nation would be much more secure. This action, along with Mr. Picken's ideas on wind power, WILL free us from imported oil and rather quickly.

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Permalink Reply by neil cox on September 15, 2008 at 8:41pm

The events of today = dark Monday indicate quickly is an understatement. We could perhaps, help most by building a factory to build large wind turbines and/or photovoltaic panels which are also in short supply. Most of the makers of better machines and panels are back ordered about a year. Perhaps we could manufacture heliostats = steerable mirrors, or electronics for HVDC = high voltage dc power lines?
None of the candidates for president, not even Bob Barr, have said anything we can take to the bank about wind turbines, CNG, nor Pickens plan. Perhaps next week there will be a clear choice. Neil

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Permalink Reply by Frogman on September 17, 2008 at 10:52am

I keep listening and don't hear much in the way of any real progress being made. Anyone that seems to try has to fight a huge government bureaucracy that exists just to tell them why they can't do something. It makes getting anything done rather difficult.

I have several ideas on wind and solar power but I can't build anything or try to do anything because I'll step on someone's toes that already produces some kind of power. Even if my idea is better, they have been around longer and have all the people in charge in their pocket. If I build it and try to use it on my own property for my own use I can go to jail if I am connected in any way to the City, Private or State Utilities. At best for me they can hassle me to death. All the laws are on their side. I don't have a chance against the existing political and business structure. So all I can do with my very limited financial resources is sit and wait till my picture improves enough to the point where I can at least get a tiny toe hold. Meanwhile the nation misses out on what might well be a great thing.

That's the American Way. We created it and we have to live with it until we can manage to change it. And all the candidates want to create MORE government. Sigh...

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