Mandating SEE Building Standards For All New Construction

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mark J Warren on January 31, 2009 at 4:28pm

Please, consider adding this to Tom's Global SEE Site, Fred

Well Done

Mark

Permalink Reply by Thomas Peterson on February 1, 2009 at 9:37am

Fred,

Thanks for starting this discussion topic. You are so right in your comments. We cannot wait for the politicians, but must continue to lead them. SEE is a great idea and once people become aware of what it can do for them personally, as well as our economy and the environment, it will get a driving force and life of its own. Then politicians will have to wipe the egg off of their faces A.S.A.P. and support the SEE effort.

Everyone will soon realize that "SEE IS FOR EVERYONE'S BENEFIT !"

Thomas

Permalink Reply by Douglas Iredale on February 1, 2009 at 6:52pm

My company is planning a small development of "SEE" homes as a prototype for our future expansion in Florida.
It is taking me longer to find out the requirements, information, design and costings on the buildings than it did to buy the land, get the Zoning and commence the engineering.
one company specializes in Solar, another in Geothermal, yet another in windmills.
Is there any one out there who really knows the issues and costs or is it all pie in the sky.

Doug

Permalink Reply by Fred Mars on February 2, 2009 at 11:19am

Mr. Iredale,
That is one of the things that I am trying to do here with Thomas and SEE, and with others in solar and wind systems. Provide a one stop shop for all information regarding energy efficiency and production. Thomas wants to provide a "SEE Building Academy" where such standards can be taught to the construction trades and provide a certification program nationally.

Since you brought it up, and you are looking to get on with SEE standards in your own building designs, how do you see effective information being presented to a the trade? I am also looking at the possibility of developing a computer application that would make estimating easier.

Fred

Permalink Reply by Douglas Iredale on February 5, 2009 at 8:33am

Fred
Difficult question as there are so many varuables.
I guess I would start with your computer programme as it is the estimationg of both costs and ROI that are the most important in my opinion.
The site should be designed as much for the end user as teh "Trade".
My problem is collating and evaluting all infomation that out there sthe homes we are trying to build are intended for the "workforce housing" segmentof the market ets say a website was produced which started with,say, showing a 2000.00 sq ft home,
1) It seems that the most important thing is insulation. So describe the typedf insulation, required, windows door, walls etc. and the costs pre sq ft.
2) Heat or Cool source. Water or Geothermal for instance or whatever . Cost of each item based plus various pros & cons of each.
3) Solar . Everybody knows about solar but a simlpe qustions such as "how many sq ft on solar of P.V. Ameri\can Solar Energy Society has some very good info on this.However once you have looked at the site you work really starts on the evaluatuion of your particular product.
4) Add a few of the Tech. gizmos that are now available.
Make the site interactive so that if you have a home of 1500sq.ft. or 3000 sq ft a re-calculation can be viewed once the details of the building or th eqiipment have been changed.
Links to variables of calculatons and other rmatters of interest could be included.

This is of course just simple description of what would have helped me but I am sure such a site could be self financing with advertising etc ,if so wished. It would certainly make estimating easier.

I have also looked at the treatement of water produced by a septic tank where the grey water can be stored in a tank instead of just being dispersed.This could then be used for water sprinkletc and other systems etc.
Also I have tried to work a a system in which a development may pool its electricity generation and the excess put back onto the grid.
The reception I got from the power companys in this area was a mixture of ignorance and a distinct feeeling that I was wasting my time. But perhaps I was beng directed to the wrong people.
I am sure you will have considered all the things I have suggested so I wish you luck with your efforts and await your comments

Permalink Reply by Fred Mars on February 5, 2009 at 9:32am

Well I would suggest that you start with all of the variables as they will be a factor regardless of the climate or building size. Thomas is the SEE expert so his input is essential for developing a SEE application, whether that is manual procedures or a computer program, the functionality will be equal.

I have been collecting data on many different alternative energy systems over years of research on my own. There are too many factors to consider when speaking of energy efficiency and energy production and generalizing can be costly and detrimental to the effort.

Starting with the needs of the owner and working to provide an affordable solution is going to be necessary before any estimating is performed. I am not a SEE expert, nor a builder, so my advice is to seek those with experience and expertise in those areas.

Fred

Permalink Reply by Earl the Energy Explorer on February 6, 2009 at 1:07pm

First of all let it be said that I am an enthusiastic supporter of this initiative. I am especially pleased as I am planning to build a home and had this very thing in mind so the information exchange in this forum will be invaluable. It also is exactly the kind of practical information that I am attempting to make available on my own website. If this goal succeeds it can make an enormous difference in our energy dependence.

It was important to say that as I do not want to be pegged as a naysayer by what follows. I just want to point out a few things that I think need to be worked out before "mandates" are proposed. In interest of full disclosure I am not in the construction business nor an expert in construction practices. I am an engineer by training (electrical and electronics) so I do understand the physical principles that apply here but cannot claim subject matter expertise. I've been around the block a few times so I understand the role that politics plays in what is being attempted here.

There are multiple vested interests at work. There are standards bodies and organizations that address building energy efficiency such Energy Star and LEED. There are professional bodies of archictects and engineers that promote their own ideas. There are the politicians with their own agendas (I could be cynical here but will refrain). There are huge numbers of builders and developers that will be impacted financially. And there are grass roots efforts like this one. To succeed there needs to be a way to bring more than even just two or three of these together. What I mean is that it won't succeed if we convince some politicians to support this if the other bodies are not on board nor would it work to link up with say the professional bodies and not the politicians and builders. It never ceases to amaze me how much money comes out of the woodwork to fight good causes.

All this said, where do we begin? Count me in!

www.energyinfoforyou.com

Permalink Reply by Fred Mars on February 6, 2009 at 3:44pm

Mr. Earl,
You are correct in that we must bring together the builders and the manufacturers of SEE/Energy Star/LEED products to form the coalition required to mandate and legislate standards and laws that will benefit all concerned. But too often (in my experience) conservative and slow moving politics bogs done the best laid plans of mice and men.

As I have pointed out in my my "The Plan To Save America" we the people need to take responsibility and action, and not rely on someone or something happening to make things right. We have to do it or it won't be done.

I joined with Pickens because I felt that T. Boone was setting an example for others with wealth to follow. I felt that there was opportunity to benefit all Americans and reduce our dependence on oil and other fuels that add greenhouse gases, or at the very least, do not address true energy independence. But that is the rub: independence from foreign oil sources does not go far enough to stimulate growth in the US economy outside of the energy sector, big oil and big power.

For me, independence is defined that you and I are free from energy enslavement, regardless of who holds those shackles. By producing energy at your home or business, you do gain true independence, and gain profit by the surplus energy you can produce. The more homes and businesses in America that produce their own power, the less reliance on other sources and the power utility becomes irrelevant. In my plan, the public works departments of the city, county, and state becomes the caretakers of the power grid system. maintaining and upgrading to fit the requirements of their local or regional demographics.

My vision of a new energy paradigm does not include corporate control over energy needs. In fact I eliminate it from the context entirely as unnecessary. Even fuels will be gone as electric motors replace fuel burning for all transportation requirements.

Someone said that cars can run on electric, but not tractor-trailers. I feel that they can do so, with a very simple design that utilizes induction power transfer from primary coils built into the roadway that induct power into secondary coils built into the under body of the truck. With the new ultra capacitors to quickly absorb charge and slowly release it, power becomes available everywhere you can use coils to induct that power. We have technology today that can make fuel use obsolete.

All of these measures will create jobs in manufacturing products, assembly and installation, Maintenance services and repair, and construction of new and remodeling with SEE standards. All will stimulate economic growth and benefit Americans with free or inexpensive energy for their homes and vehicles, a cleaner environment, and less tax burden.

Fred

Attachments:

• The Plan To Save America.doc, 35 KB

Permalink Reply by Earl the Energy Explorer on February 6, 2009 at 6:07pm

Fred,

No argument with anything you said. I simply wanted to point out that there have been a lot of grass roots efforts that died, not because it was a bad idea or didn't have a lot of supporters, but because they overlooked the reality of money and politics. Either one of those can build a nearly impenetrable wall. How do you knock the wall down? You can gather enough troops to overwhelm it. It is critical to do this or those in power will just ignore you. Instead of using those forces to knock the wall down it is much easier and faster to have allies on the inside that just open the door for you. Pardon my medieval analogy but at the moment I feel like one of the peasants waving the pitch fork. I'm glad though to have more and more like minded ones around me. While we muster the forces lets do what we can to gain allies in those stone towers. The time has never been better.

Permalink Reply by Fred Mars on February 7, 2009 at 9:27am

Power? What power? Are you talking about CEO's that make 20 million plus a year? That's pretty powerful salary. Did you mean Senators or Congressmen that have been reelected so many times that they thing they have a reign of power?

We need to get our voices heard by those that we elect. When will Americans wake up and realize these people work for you? It's called representative government, but it only works when the people remain vigilant and take action.

Fred

Permalink Reply by Earl the Energy Explorer on February 7, 2009 at 11:40am

I'm not defending it and unfortunately life is not fair in that "power" is not directly proportional to intelligence, common sense, integrity, morals, or some combination of the lot. I am in agreement with what you say. I'm simply suggesting that it can take a long time to gather the numbers required to impress upon those that sit in a position of power that if they do not listen they will be at risk to maintain that position. Isn't that what the worst of this lot do - ignore the reason that they were put in that position and focus their attention and resources to stay there? I am suggesting that working it from all directions will do two things. Speed the process and build a stronger consensus.

Permalink Reply by Mark J Warren on February 6, 2009 at 2:23pm

Earl the Energy Explorer

Please visit our Global Site at : www.seadog8278.ning.com !

Add your powerful voice for all to here, if you please.

Mark