Q & A with Thomas - Specific questions and answers about SEE

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Monte Smith on February 1, 2009 at 7:02pm

Thomas, as this exchange between us is rapidly being buried in the comment archives due to all of the activity on the comment wall (a good thing), I wanted to recap our Q & A session and add 2 or three more questions. Here's excerpts from our Q & A thus far:

Q: Monte - Thomas, what is the S.F. (square foot) building cost on the SEE house in the photo?

A: Thomas - The house you are referring to would cost between $100 -120 / S.F. This of course can vary greatly depending on the house and its amenities. I have built houses costing over $200.00 / S.F.


Q: Monte - Thomas, how long did it take to construct the house from the point of laying out the footprint to getting the CO (certificate of occupancy)?

A: Thomas - Monte, building it as a SEE house adds about two weeks to the construction time. The way that I build the one your are referring to in Maine, the additional time covers carpentry labor for doing some window & door structural work to tie the two walls together, applying hardboard insulation to the inside of the outside wall (including in any band joist areas), applying and sealing a continuous vapor barrier over the hardboard and cap ceiling, building the very lightly framed second wall, and insulating that inner wall. It does not add anything to the other trades other than insulation, if they do the interior wall's fiberglass insulation.

"Production" carpenters may be able to do what I have described above faster, but quality control is of vital importance for the SEE concept to work at its best. I know of a decades old experiment where two identical house were built side by side - - one where the insulation was installed in a recommended quality fashion and the other where it was "thrown in". The "thrown in house" actually used twice as much energy to heat than the "properly" insulated one.

SEE adds between 5 to 10 percent to the cost of the typical home (labor & materials). Some contemporaries could cost a little more, but then we are applying a 5-10% factor to a more expensive home to begin with. I have perfected many techniques over the years to keep material and especially labor costs down and feel that in most cases, I am working closer to the 5% additional range. When we finally build our first national model, labor and cost measures will be looked at very closely and discussed by all involved.

As you might imagine, the cost of converting an older home to SEE standards is much broader. Generally, the most effective way of converting an existing home is to do it to the outside (inside is also very doable with a gut rehab.). Any home including a brick one could be brought up to SEE standards. However, if you wanted a brick home to be done from the outside and have a brick finish, the cost could be quite high - - especially compared to a vinyl sided home.

I built it [the house in the photo above] during a slow time with a small crew to keep key employees busy. I would think building it in a more "normal" fashion would take four to six months. If one were to use a large "experienced" SEE crew to build such a home or a bunch of similar homes, I am sure times could be shortened.

I figured the SEE work on that house done with a "normal" crew would take an additional two weeks - - included in the 4-6 mos.

New Questions:

Q: Thomas, I know that you have stated it somewhere before but I cannot find it (we really need a search engine in these groups)...what is the total S.F. of the house. Not just living space but everything?

Q: Thomas, on the short-term (next couple of years), what is the objective that you want to achieve with SEE?


Q: On the bigger view....next 5 - 10 years...what is your vision regarding the evolution of SEE housing?

Permalink Reply by Monte Smith on February 1, 2009 at 7:08pm

Monte,

Regarding your new questions:

Q: Thomas, I know that you have stated it somewhere before but I cannot find it (we really need a search engine in these groups)...what is the total S.F. of the house in the photo? Not just the living S.F. but everthing?

The house covers two rectangles One is 24' X 28' , the other 28' x 32' Footprint is thus 1,568 S.F. The lowest level is the garage / basement storage area 24' X 28' or 672 S.F. The third and fourth levels with a kitchen, dining area, living room, three bedrooms, and two full baths cover 1,568 S.F. The second level has the home entry area and a large family room (or fourth bedroom in-law area). There is also a utility room on that level (6' X 28') and an unfinished laundry and future bath area. Finished space is around 600 S.F. on that level.

Actual finished living space is between 2,100 and 2,200 S.F., but I rounded down slightly to 2,100 S.F. The roof of the house covers 3,136 S.F. on all four levels. I could send you the plan Monte, if you would like.

Q: Thomas, on the short-term (next couple of years), what is the objective that you want to achieve with SEE?

Following is the shortest version that I can give you:

I would like to see SEE understood by everyone for what it can do to 1) save on energy use, 2) save our economy, 3) save our environment, and 4) save money for those who invest in converting existing or building new homes to SEE standards. IMPORTANTLY, people need to also understand that with traditional financing, this can be done with the energy savings immediately more than paying back the cost of converting to SEE standards. Imagine taking out a loan so that you will have more money in your pocket every year, while the loan is also being paid off !!!!!! Everyone needs to understand that living in an SEE home is definitely in their future!

I would like to see the Federal and State governments promoting the value of SEE, but I am not willing to wait for them. Any one of us can decide for personal financial reasons that an SEE home is in their best interests and seek out a contractor to build such a home. The more of us that do that, the sooner contractors will learn how to build SEE homes.

Beyond that I would like to have the following programs begun:

1) SEE mortgages for existing & new homes,
2) programs set up to train contractors how to build build new and
convert older homes to SEE standards.
3) an evaluation program (private or governmental) set up to determine
ideal SEE standards for different zones in our country, AND the
degree that different energy efficient components can save money
in various SEE zones. By setting up a certification program, the
companies that produce energy efficient components can be
asked to pay for such an evaluation.

The SEE concept will begin a major new industry in this country - - renovating older homes to SEE standards. This means non-exportable solid middle class jobs that will get our economy jump started and running well for decades. The savings from building such SEE homes will mean people will have more discretionary income to buy products from other sectors of our economy also boosting jobs in those sectors.

Q: On the bigger view....next 5 - 10 years...what is your vision regarding the evolution of SEE housing?

Within that 5 - 10 year period, the whole country should be well on the way to converting our housing to SEE standards. I may be somewhat optimistic, but I would hope by year 10 that close to 50% of our homes could be converted to SEE standards. I think that between 20 and 30 years they would all be converted.

I may be optimistic, but we are not talking "Rocket Science" here. The SEE concept is simple, the need is great, and the American people are smart enough to see SEE's value. LET'S GO !

Thomas

Permalink Reply by Thomas Peterson on February 1, 2009 at 10:44pm

Monte,

Thank you for thinking of the concept of setting up this discussion group, AND for setting up the group.

Thomas