What do real people really want from solar?

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Permalink Reply by Paul on July 21, 2008 at 11:18am

If no one here can answer this question, then the problem is bigger than anyone realizes.

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Permalink Reply by Paul on July 21, 2008 at 12:18pm

OK, the pump is primed... Who will be bold and say what the would pay in $$$ or at least in years/months of utility bills i.e. electric, gas, oil, coal, wood, steam, etc...

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Permalink Reply by Paul on July 21, 2008 at 6:47pm

How about one more little condition... When I said *pay* let's disregard any and all rebates, incentives, grants, programs, etc... Please consider it the same way you'd consider a washing machine or another household appliance. Maybe a nice bedroom set even.

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Permalink Reply by Mark on July 22, 2008 at 7:42am

Just signed up to this forum. Your question is tough in that the far majority of individuals want to get something for their money now or be very reasonably sure of a return that they can measure at different points in the future. In both cases, the purchaser can weigh the cost of the purchase and see if it is worth it to them.

Similar to hybrid cars - individuals are concerned that they would not get their money back fro the investment. That is the gas savings still would not be enough to pay for the added cost of the hybrid.

I will be finding out about this first hand because in the next few months I will be looking into panels for our SoCal home. Our situation differs from the above because our particular goals are that we want to contribute positively to the environment with the hope that the investment will one day start to pay for itself (but with no definite expectations). I gotta think we would be in the minority of buyers regarding our expectations.

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Permalink Reply by Ward on July 23, 2008 at 8:24pm

If you are thinking about installing a solar system you should check out SolarCity.com
They aren't nationwide yet but they are in SoCal.
I live in Phoenix.
You can lease a solar system with no money down and there is no maintenance fees for the life of the lease(15 years).
I just signed a lease for a 6.1kw system and it costs $91 per month but it will cut my electric bill by 68%.(Average $224 to $72).
These are consertive numbers because they guarantee this performance.
SolarCity monitors the system on the internet to make sure it is performing and you can access the preformance of your system any time.
By going through Solar City you can have a solar system that costs you nothing and in my case saves me an average of $61 dollars per month and another great benifit is that you are shielded from the rate increases that the power companies are getting. I heard that Cal. is asking for as much as 17.9%.

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Permalink Reply by Joseph Wojcicki on July 24, 2008 at 5:59am

I am impresed.
My question is: what kind of system it is. From your numbers it seems to be Grid-Connected. If Yes -Can it works while grid is OFF (nno voltage in their system)? Has it protected from the service line voltage surging and approved by inspectors from Electric Energy Provider?

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Permalink Reply by Larry Lance on August 6, 2008 at 11:14am

Ward,
I live in Nothern Virigina, I am paying in the summer $240.00 a month for my electric bill, which is about $0.10 a kW in the summer. In the winter my Gas bill is $210 and my electric is $90. I would like to find a company that is on the East Coast for this type of service. Anyone know of one?

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Permalink Reply by Auntie Tutu on August 13, 2008 at 1:21am

Hawaii's power company has an AUTOMATIC rate raise every darn time they see an increase in POil scosts. With that there is no incentive to go for solar or wind...for them....and every incentive for the homeowner to cut the cord and drop off the grid.

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Permalink Reply by Mekhong Kurt on November 22, 2008 at 10:09pm

Mark: you make very cogent points.

Though I'm not exactly rolling in piles of money, I could afford to spend, within limits, just on the basis of hope, for exactly the same reason you're looking into solar for your home there in California: to make a positive contribution to the environment, partly for the specific philanthropic purpose of off-setting more than my "fair share" so people who simply can't afford to do enough have a little wiggle room.

Like you, I doubt many people can do this, especially in the current economic meltdown.

I don't own a home -- I live in an apartment in Bangkok, Thailand (though I am American, I've lived here for years). But my Sister and I own a trailer house for renting out, and I have tried to convince her we should put solar panels on it, especially given that the electric bill in the summer runs into the hundreds of dollars -- as much as about $600 -- in a trailer that's only 12' X 60'. But I've not succeeded in convincing her, despite the fact the trailer has been empty so long we're talking about unloading it. (We own a small ranch in northeast Texas; my Sister lives there with her husband, and their Son lives there as well, as does our Mother.)

I also am trying to persuade her we should either put in ourselves or let someone else put in wind, solar, or a combination of the two on the other end of the place from where they all live. The ranch is narrow but relatively long, for so few acres (267) -- about 1.3 miles long. And the grid runs relatively nearby, well under a mile away to one line, and just over a mile to the transmission lines that run across the inhabited end of our ranch. Again, so far, no joy.

Now to the larger question of how much I'd spend. It would depend on the specific project, but taking solar panels as an example for the trailer house, I'd go $15,000-20,000, even if I ended up losing, say, as much as 30-35% of my investment. Of course, I'd like to at least break even, and to make any profit from selling power to the grid would be pure gravy.

I sure am glad Mr. Pickens is doing this, and even more glad that he is enjoying extraordinary success. When a oil billionaire speaks, people obviously listen. And to heck with those who gripe he wants to make money; that's what business people are *supposed* to do. And I don't see how anyone can oppose helping the environment and, thus, ourselves, including economically (lower bills, green jobs, etc.).

Hope your solar plans work out, and that you at least break even. If not, good for you that you're willing to bite the bullet, if it comes to that.

Kurt Francis
Aubrey, TX/Bangkok, Thailand

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Permalink Reply by Scott Brown on July 24, 2008 at 10:08am

First, SOLAR does not work without the rebates and incentives at this time. But we seem to give incentives for everything and everyone else. So why not give some back to assist with the USA needs. Why not give incentives to help drive down cost. Until solar cost $1 a watt, it will be very hard to make it self support in cost of product. Under stand coal power cost $0.02 per kw to make. It is hard to compete head to head against that cost basis. But it is a solution to help resolve the import issue, and yes it cost more. IF we can grow our use of 12% from solar and 22% from Wind and then have natural gas, Then we have cut our use by more than 50%.

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Permalink Reply by Paul on July 24, 2008 at 10:40am

Scott,

Two discussions might help clarify this: ecomonics and describing the characteristics of solar power.

The Light is Green!

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Permalink Reply by Auntie Tutu on August 13, 2008 at 1:19am

You can get a lot of information and a lot less noise than here on Pickens Plan, at the website wecansolveit.org. THere is information on what is happening in all the states, and the site has ten times the participants and not 5% of the confusion.

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