What do real people really want from solar?

Request: Would someone not in the industry please describe their *ideal* solar powered solution for the home or for their business.

Please describe something you would *really* purchase. And please understand that the folks who will make and install the system have lives & homes & kids in college too.

Tags: expectation, practical, purchase

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by michael maldonado on April 6, 2009 at 2:33pm: Paul,

First of all thanks for the forum. Great Topic.

Please understand me, I like the idea of Solar and I wish every home in Amarica had a Solar power System. I also think the Technology is here. (and it has been for years) Therfore, we all should have installed Solar panels long ago.

But, Why dont we?

We can't afford it. The common people of this country are being asked to switch from SCE, PG&E, ETC over to a brand new Solar panel system with no guarantees.

I drove through my neighborhood and found only one home with solar panels and in my whole town I have only found six and about three large businesses. I live in a town of 50,000 people and not even a handfull of people have solar panels. I was in Hawaii two years ago and most of those homes had solar. I have no idea how they do it.

I'm afraid that the new SCE, PG&E, BIG OIL is going to be BIG SOLAR! If that's the case then I'm going to stick with the evil I know.

We can talk kw numbers, Meter numbers, Dollar numbers, savings numbers or any other number but once again. bottom line, Myself and most of America can't afford it. Nobody has to sell me on Solar because I want solar panels myself but I can't afford them.

Generally, The warranty is about 20 years so even if you buy a new system in about 20 years your going to have to upgrade again or replace or repair. Solar panels DONT last a lifetime.

buy or lease it's all about profits, That's why I would like to see both business and government work on a NON-PROFIT plan to break even for both consumer and business. I don't see any other way even with all the Government credits it's still to expensive.

If solar companies wish to catter to the super rich and that's it, then that leaves me out and that's the way it is. I'm actualy better off sticking with what I have. A monthly fee to SCE and SCE takes care of the complete system for life.

Paul, take a look around you. How many of your friends have Solar?

Like I said, It's a shame. Solar is such a good idea but it's going to be out of reach to the majority of us all because of profit. If I could build and install a solar system myself, I would.

Anyway, Like I said great topic.

MIKE; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Dave baragona on April 6, 2009 at 2:12pm: Mike,

1. You don't get something for nothing.

Everyone I talked to wants Solar for "free". Solar is not free. There is an up front cost. Deal with it.

2. You don't have to get 100% of your power from Solar to have an impact.

Buy what you can afford. Every little bit helps.

I bought a 2KW system, which was as much as I could afford. A 2KW system reduces my electricity by 30-50%. It only has 12 Solar panels and covers about one half of the south facing side of my roof.

3. Solar prices reductions and increased government incentives have brought the cost down significantly.

My "out of pocket cost for my 2KW system was only $4000 after incentives and rebates. My ROI is about 5 years.

In the end it comes down to desire...........How much do you want to help?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by michael maldonado on April 6, 2009 at 3:37pm: Dave,

Who said I want something for free? I just said a basic human need like light, heat, refrigerated food, cool air, Probably should be sold for NON-PROFIT. Even if it was non profit I would probably still have a difficult time paying for a complete solar panel system.

I just suggested a business and Governament team up to help make solar affordable. As it stand now I can't afford Solar and none of my neighbors. We all should have had solar panels years ago.

I would pay for a solar system, Just at a fair cost I can afford. If solar companies are wishing the HUGE profits to shift to them from PG&E, SCE AND BIG OIL then I'm sticking with the evil I know. My SCE bill is cheaper and easier than paying both a Solar company and SCE at a bigger cost.

I'm sorry but that's the truth. If you can afford a Solar power system then more power to you, I wish I could have one.

MIKE.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Paul on April 7, 2009 at 8:35am: Hey Michael,

Um... I really don't know where to start. You've got som seriously flawed ideas circulating between your ears. Sorry I don't mean to sound insulting... I blame whoever educated you from childhood.

Just because electricity is '... a basic human need..." OMG this is the crux... Why are you entitled to it on a non-profit basis? This is a basic flaw in reasoning! The communist/socialist education you received to think such a think is the problem. Your arguments are build on a foundation of mud.

See what you seek is called utopia, and it does not exist in the real world. People *must* work towards their own goals, and if you expect to be fed then you better expect to compensate the person who feeds you. That's called *PROFIT*

It's you're the buyer you only get to make one call as to what is *too much profit" -- You can either buy the food and eat, -- or -- you can stick to your principles and go to bed hungry. There is one other option, you can negotiate with the seller, but to have the government point a gun to the sellers head and say "feed him" is so utterly repulsive and disgusting that I can't even put it into words!

If I was given that option, I would pack up my goods and make sure you can never find them -- in the end the result is you're still hungry!

Don't you know that underground resistances survived this way under the oppression of socialist governments? Laissez-faire capitalism survived this way, and so the people that valued freedom!

OK, OK I'm sorry, but from what you've stated you'd hold a gun to the head of someone that won't *give* you what you want. That's what socialists do when guilt fails to *encourage*...

I hope we can talk in the future when ...; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Dave baragona on April 7, 2009 at 9:41am: Mike,

Whay can't you afford a $25K solar system.

Americans pay over $25K (and more) for cars everyday. They get a loan and pay it off over 5 years.

Why can't you do the same with solar?

With solar there are two advantages over a car loan.
1. You get about two thirds of the cost back with current incentives.
2. Your reduced electrical bill helps to offset the monthly payment of the loan.

Once the loan is paid off, you still continue to save money in reduce electrical bills..

If you want to see some reduced solar costs try this web site: http://power-save.com. They have the lowest prices I've seen for Solar.

Pretty soon you will be running out of excuses.....; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by michael maldonado on April 7, 2009 at 10:44am: DAVE,

Most Americans are now having a hard time making the monthly payments on there home and cars and food, utilities, education, health care, etc.

have you watched the news? Forclotures and repo men taking cars.

Actualy solar panels would help these poor peolpe save money by reducing there utility bill but at this point I would discourage them from purchasing a new solar system because they would go deeper in debt by putting up a 2nd mortgage payment or leasing a system they can't afford. I make a decent income with all of my debt paid off and I can't afford a solar system.

at this point Solar is all for profit only. and until something changes solar will be only available to the super rich and big companies. Look around you. How many of your friends have solar?

I'm not asking for something for nothing. I'm just doing without because I can't afford it. No big deal. Let's all just come up with a fair price for such a good idea. SOLAR.

mike.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Dave baragona on April 8, 2009 at 10:44am: Right on queue.....

I was wondering how long it would take Mr Epps to chime in and bad mouth any meaningful conversation about solar.

He is more fanatical than your average radical Islamist when it comes to hatred of Solar PV.

Oh well. I guess this discussion is done for a while.

Check Please......; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by michael maldonado on April 7, 2009 at 10:34am: Paul,

Where did all the socialist/Communist stuff come from. Your feathers are all ruffled. I think your trying to throw this into the Republican / Democrat stuff. Well, I'm a moderate so I don't jump on eather of those band-wagons.

But, here we type and still, we don't have solar panels on our roof. Who has the money for it?

The way I figure it. I can't afford solar and if SOLAR companies are the next big OIL for profit then count me out. Like I said. I'll just stick with the evil I know.

At least SCE doesn't require me to put $30,000 dollars up front and pray nothing breaks down and no guarantees. SCE is a huge for profit company but at least I only pay for what I use. When I talk to my friends and family, I tell them solar is a great idea but the wealthy have grabed control of it and left it out of reach for us poor folks.

I just want a non-profit price. Let's break even on a solar system. Make the consumer happy, make the business happy and make the government happy. Let's team up. Until then I can't afford it and if you look around you noone else can.

I'm not trying to trash Republicans or Democrats. I'm just saying Solar is such a good idea let's not set it up all for profit. Let's come up with a fair price so we all can put panels on our roof. Remember the subject title. "WHAT DO REAL PEOPLE REALLY WANT FROM SOLAR? Well, I'm one of those real people and it would appear there are a lot of other real people that can't afford solar.

Like I Said, such a great idea (SOLAR) and it's out of reach to the vast majority of people because it has turned into all for PROFIT.

No big deal, I'll wait until I can figure out the technology on line and try to build my own in the future because as it stands now Solar is out of reach to most Americans. When I figure out a fair price to add solar. I'll tell my friends and family.

MIKE.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Paul on April 7, 2009 at 2:19pm: Hey Mike,

The socialist issue is buried in the answer you gave. You asked for a non-profit solution... As a supplier of solar electric generating systems I'll say: "Nope! your offer to buy is rejected."

I've got 8 years of my life invested in my solar technology, and you want me to supply that for you without making a dime??? OMG, I can only say I'm shocked that you'd ask me to work for free for your benefit. If this was truly an 'adult' forum, I'd have some far more colorful vocabulary to fire off... But in the interest of fostering discussion I'd rather keep it clean :^)

So back to the entrails of my reaction... How can you expect &*anyone* to cheerfully offer a product or service for sale if they don't make a profit? It has *nothing* to do with solar being clean, or eco-friendly. If has to do with what is a better solution than buying your energy at retail each month.

As for how many friends/neighbors have solar power... I don't see how that matters. They either have the _desire_ to make a change from the status quo or they don't. Ya' know any folks that drop $100/mo on a cell phone service, another $70 on cable, $5/day on coffee, etc... These are the same folks crying "poverty" and defaulting on student loans, car payments, and mortgages...

Do you realize that a 5kW solar system would actually be a money making business on *most* homes in the US? But most Americans are no longer programmed to make $$$, so the demand is met by *big power* to borrow your analogy.

The Light is Green!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by michael maldonado on April 7, 2009 at 4:56pm: Paul, all I do know is SCE doesn't charge me a penny of up front fees and I never have to upgarde or repair anything and I only pay for what I use and I can cancel anytime and move if I wish.

I hate to say it but I'm (financialy) better off sticking with SCE.

I don't see salesmen selling any solar because it's to screaming high. How much profit is to much profit? Solar is a great idea but if money hungry investers get a hold of it all, then the vast majority of us will have no choice but to stay with our utilitie companies.

I'm now, Telling my family and friends to stay away from solar. I'm telling them it's now a money hungry scam. I don't want them to get in any more DEBT.

Paul, I'm sory but this is all the truth. I know your in the business but I would tell you the same thing I told three other salesmen. "Sory, but I can't afford Solar".

I hope in the future things change because what an incredibly good idea (solar) just to leave it out of reach of the vast majority of people.

No hard feeling I'm just giving you my "Real People" Thoughts.

MIKE.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Paul on April 8, 2009 at 9:37am: Hey Mike,

Believe it or not I feel your pain, but here's the harsh truth. If you can't afford my price, then I move on tho the next customer. If you're content paying SCE month to month, then by all means continue to do so. It's your choice; I support that; it's the free market.

But here's the flip side... If I can't get my cost of production then I really can't expect to sell any systems either. That's what I've spent 8 years doing; getting the cost down.

And finally, there's what's in the middle... if PV is $8/Watt and I sell mine for $1.50/Watt... who is the greater fool? Actually if I could sell systems for $1.50/Watt I might for a while. Just long enough to damage the PV industry...That's what big oil has done to the renewable energy industry for 40 years...

All I'm saying is that I can provide you with real value at $3 to $5 per Watt installed. And ya' know what? If the next guy comes along and drops the price point, I'll either compete of I fold... That's the beauty of a free market economy.

The only constant that remains throughout is your ability to buy or to pass at whatever the prevailing rate for solar equipment is. You don't get to say how much profit I make, how much the other guy makes, or the other-other guy either, unless you say pass (aka NO-SALE)... in which case you pay SCE their profit.

The Light is Green!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Dave baragona on April 7, 2009 at 4:15pm: Everyone here is discussing one aspect of alternative energy and that is "cost"

If cost is the only issue, then I see no reason to continue this discussion.

Why? Because oil is still the cheapest ticket in town, foreign or otherwise.

Please go to this web site for more information on costs..... http://exxon.com; ▶ Reply to This