Opportunity -- Are you a taker or a maker?

Threats abound concerning the cancellation of incentives for solar energy. Major players in the industry are rattling sabers saying they will abandon projects without major tax concessions.

Pressure is being brought to get congress to continue with the handouts. Various progressive, socialist, liberal, and left-wing organizations are suggesting that the government must come to the rescue of the energy guzzling public.

If incentives are canceled, will you toss up hands and walk away? I've not met anyone here that falls into that category. Will you continue to work with the remaining suppliers to push for more solar energy? Me too. So let's not forfeit more money, power, and motivation, to the government that got us into this mess.

My position is that I would rather the congress stop dipping into the taxpayers pocket! Why? Because STS technology works even in the absence of incentives. Don't get me wrong, if the incentives are there I'll take them too. But I won't rally with those that say "Give us our entitlements." I hope you won't either.

The Light is Green!

Tags: government, incentive, lobby, tax

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Paul on July 30, 2008 at 7:31am: Perhaps this aged out too fast because of all the spam messages to all members.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Larry Lance on July 30, 2008 at 7:49am: What if the government gave 2% loans to cover 50% of the cost of a Solar system for home owners?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Paul on July 30, 2008 at 9:59am: Hey Larry,

With tongue firmly in cheek... So what is your stance? That's a negotiated position somewhere in between "take & make" Sure it's a reasonable solution... but for this debate let's say it's not an option (which ain't far from the truth, because it isn't an option)

So which is it? Do you walk away? Or do you buy a system for your own self interest?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Todd McKissick on July 30, 2008 at 12:02pm: Personally, I'm really getting tired of the two schools of thought that are everywhere in these forums. People's inattention to anything beyond surface discussion keeps the discussions (so far) in such repetitive tracks.

So many people want "renewables" or more specifically "solar PV" but they don't want to listen to the reasons it isn't happening or how well the alternatives to those are. There are two facts that consistantly get glossed over. The first is that solar thermal (to produce power, cooling or just usable heat) is much better and cheaper to do than expensive PV. The second is that there are a dozen companies needing just a little more support to get to market but the lack of interest is killing it.

This means that until we get this technology the public recognition, those roadblocks (financing, incentives, media awareness, public policy) aren't going away and we'll be stuck with only expensive solutions. Don't you guys understand that this is why the energy companies support PV? It's not a threat to their business. I've written these issues up in my blog and received very little comment. I've started this discussion more than once and the topic simply dies with no comments. If people want to complain that their options are so limited, why aren't they willing to discuss the 'reasons behind the reasons' more? I've even appealed to the altruistic side and someone says 'nice post' and moves on.

If we don't figure out specifically what congress needs to do, why are people flooding them with letters to fix it? I DON'T WANT CONGRESS TO FIX IT. They will worsen the problem in the same ways that they have caused most of our existing problem. We need to make a plan, stand unified for it and get that snowball headed down the hill.

[crickets chirping...]; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Roberta Orbach on July 30, 2008 at 2:10pm: Living in Arizona gives me great incentive to look into solar power. I have heard that some R&D companies are making great strides in this arena by having the actual roofing material on homes contain solar cells, manufacturing more efficient solar panels that are cheaper to make, etc.

I contend that we need ALL sources of alternative power to make the drastic changes we need in the very near future. After all, one huge 12,000 year old ice cap just broke away last week. TWELVE THOUSANDS YEARS OLD AND IT IS MELTING!

We need action, not complaining about the government.

Anxious to have an Arizona group and willing to host............; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by John Moats on August 8, 2008 at 8:42pm: Hi There,

My name is Turtle John. I own a small solar and wind company in St. Johns, Az. I'd love to get an Az. group started. If you start it I will join. Up by where we're at is the most untapped winds in the entire USA. The average is upwards of 12mpg at 50' height. A good row of 10kw wind towers would crank out some serious juice. The transmission lines are there. About 7 miles out of St. Johns is the Coronado Coal fired generating plant. It was built in the late 70's and emits some seriously nasty stuff. Even though if you listen to Salt River Project thats quite the opposite of what their story is. My website is www.terrapinsolar.com I'm for action. Money talks, bull%#&@ walks! People keep bringing up the subject of the cost of solar. The cost if we don't do something drastic is our lives. Which is more vital. You can't take it with you when your gone!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Eric Lykins on July 31, 2008 at 12:55am: "Utilizing only 1% of the earth's deserts to produce clean solar electric energy would provide more electricity than is currently being produced on the entire planet by fossil fuels."
So says Solar Developments your online solar thermal energy equipment supplier.

solar thermal statistics from the Dept. of Energy

Yes, we need more of these; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Paul on August 7, 2008 at 2:38pm: 700MW, 130,000 sq ft, I wonder what it cost? I wonder how much fuel it burns to thermally form all those glass reflectors?

How about:

350MW, 50,000 sq ft -- I can do it for $5M and zero greenhouse gasses! I was taught it's not polite to brag....; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Robert Glick - iam9113 on August 7, 2008 at 4:24pm: Todd McKissick - hey, I could hear those crickets.

I agree with you about the part of forget the government and rebates, get them if you can but do NOT wait for them to start down the road. I guess for those who plan to spend $25,000 in one lump really look at that. Or how about start smaller and double it later?

Her is why I show no interest it THERMAL. I don't understand how it works, really, to make electric for my house. Yes, we plan to add one for the hot water. But PV I can read about and understand, learn on my own right here. I can see it in my mind.

But physically, mechanically, equipment-wise, how is thermal electric generation set up, what equipment used, can I do it myself, buy the parts, start smaller and grow into bigger stuff? I can work through all this with PV.

The tubing on the roof heats a liquid, then how does it make the electric?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Paul on August 8, 2008 at 7:47am: CSP makes electricity the same was as a power plant. Hot vapor turns an engine, converting heat energy into mechanical work. The work is used to spin a generator, et viola, electricity -- just like a power plant!

Yes you *could* DIY, but I'd guess you stopped harvesting ice in the winter too, you bought a fridge. :^); ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Robert Glick - iam9113 on August 8, 2008 at 11:57pm: Sure, that sounds interesting. So I don't build my own, I buy it. Does it go in my basement or garage? About how much space does it take? Can I start with a smaller unit and add a larger one later? Or can I just add panels or does the panel / generator relationship have to keep in balance? In other words, do I buy a generator of certain size and the panels with it, then if I want to expand I buy another generator and panels?; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Paul on August 9, 2008 at 8:28am: Panels go on the roof or on the ground facing south. Main unit looks like a central A/C compressor. Sits next to building, or away from it. Pipes connect main unit to panels; wire connects main unit to building.

Main unit has an 'up-to' rating (500kW) you could start with a 50 kW site but order a 150kW generator under the hood. The field would have 50kW of panels installed. Then in a year you decide to add another 100 kW of panels... easy.

Two years later you want to upgrade again... upgrade (swap) generator from 150kW to 500kW, and add 250kW more panels.

Another 2 years you want still more... we add another main unit in parallel. There's no limit, 500kW/unit up to as many MW of generation you want.; ▶ Reply to This