Sue Detroit?

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Detroit callously and arrrogantly asks and expect us to pay for their failed strategy. What is left but to sue and remove the top execs?

Members: 18
Latest Activity: Jul 8

Detroit Executives need to go if we ever expect real change in their product line.

On another group I began with -
I don't know where we stand with the auto industry and so am somewhat reluctant to address the issue. I have already said (before Detroit was given a temporary reprieve) that I do not trust current auto management. I still don't. I have heard recently that Ford plans to roll out a fairly large number of hybrid automobiles. I wonder about that and even if they do, I suspect they will intentionally sabotage the concept to sour the market's apetite for them. I honestly believe we will never be well served by the criminals who have occupied the top posts in these companies for the past 50 years. I don't trust Congress either but we absolutely MUST have change. Does anyone know a great trial lawyer? Couldn't we institute a class action lawsuit against GM, Ford and Chrysler for stubbornly withholding clean and efficient technology from the American people? As much as I dislike lawyers, I'd contribute to the fund. All I want as a remedy is that they fire their entire upper echelon of management and replace them with people who want to build cars with carbon fiber frames and bodies (yes they can be made just as safe as steel frame cars but they weigh so much less we will double the miles per gallon by shedding the weight), powered by electricity and cng. I expect that nothing much will change, current management will remain and we will be given no alternative but to buy their crap until they give up the ghost.

It's time for a treasure hunt. We're going all over Pickens "land". With over 1.8 million members there must be an attorney (or somebody that knows an attorney) somewhere. Ok scatter.

RESPONSES:
I agree there needs to be a class action suit against the auto industry, the banking industry as well as the current congress and administration.

We Americans cannot accept the attitudes and condescending nature of those that have given away the American way of life. We are not a socialist nation and I feel we have been BETRAYED.

Can the administration as well as congress be impeached for NOT EVEN reading the bills the vote on?

I hope to not make enemies with my political views but will take that chance.
Where would we be if the founding fathers had not taken a stand?

I agree, We are American' first,

I think they have forgotten these simple words that made us a Great Nation.

I Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America for which it stands one nation under God Indivisible for liberty and Justice for all, Not just the few at the top.

Our Government is betraying us to a point. They allow some Congress folks to serve their own interests don't they? Has it ever been the will of the people to have Government run our Lives as much as we are seeing for the past 30 years. They Double & Triple Taxes on us and then throw our hard earned Dollars to the ones who created this mess to start with. These big oil, car companies & congress had a chance to change things back in the 70s for this country didn't they. The Bottom line is Greed Plain & Simple.

I still say As one of their Bosses I would like to go to Washington and hand out some Pink Slips. Better yet Turn the tables on them. Take their Power away from them if they are not really serving the will of the people the way the Constitution says.

Discussion Forum

Down with The Big Three 13 Replies

Started by Chris Lewis. Last reply by W. Dan Chance Mar 31.

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Comment by W. Dan Chance on April 13, 2009 at 6:46pm: As Chris pointed out, this IS another discussion but I hear two disparate points of view and there is some truth to each. On the one hand Doctors do have a lot of expenses, and their net may not be an adequate reward for the services they perform carrying the load of debt and operating expenses for their practices but as one of their customers along with Jim I put off going-to-the-doctor as long as I can (like haircuts) because of the expense. y'know I wonder, are we living longer just so we can pay our doctor bills? I'll create a discussion on Medical bills where we can "carry on" till our heart's content.

Comment by Jim on April 13, 2009 at 4:17pm: I just reread my comment and meant to say they don't have enough money to make me NOT see.
I also meant to say the dr did both my eyes - 2000 per eye.

Comment by Chris Lewis on April 13, 2009 at 4:03pm: Your subject is off track but very near and dear to my heart. I know hardly anyone with insurance. Medicare is a joke charging $95.00 a month and at no time have they ever paid $95. towards my medical and I've been on disability since 2003. Thank you for pointing out doctors are getting reimbursed at the same level of 20 to 30 years ago. A medical degree costs well over 150k to be just a regular MD. My personal physician makes less than a RN by the time he pays outrageous malpractice insurance, office help and let's not forget, he has to pay someone to do his billing also. We are in for a nightmare here when the automotive industry finishes going through it's death thrones there will be millions more without insurance. Pretty pitiful situation to work hard all ones life and then to spend your lifetimes savings on medicine and medical care. While the slackers who never worked have no worries. free medical, transportation, diapers, home health care workers to clean their homes and Meals On Wheels delivering an abundance of food. I pay six to seven hundred a month of my gross income for medical and medicine. I can eat for less, rent a nice apartment for less and even buy a new car for less money. I had to pay $200. State Taxes on my $4,556.00 income. Give me a break.

Comment by Jim on April 13, 2009 at 3:47pm: W Dan
I think you are right about "bread and circuses" Tax the rich!!
YAY They're leaving us alone. Not for long.
I grew up on a farm (64 now) and know what living is about. I am no longer on the farm and am on disability. Now things are bad. 25% for copay meds. have to pay bills. only 500+ over the poverty level for the year. (when isn't that poverty?) Without the increase we would still be able to pay for meds and everything else. (about 200$ copay a month now AND 200$ a month for medicare & about 50 for part D)) That's almost what my wife gets.
They don't have enough money to make me see what is happening. Even when I didn't have to worry about higher copay I was mad about what was happening. They want to "fix" healthcare and other things by throwing more money at them. Drs don't get from medicare what they charge. I had caract surgery and for 2000 that the dr put into medicare they paid less than 1000. If the government gets hold of how much drs can charge how long will it be until those who want to be drs emigrate to other countries who will let them charge what they are worth. I have listened to the british man who is a member of parliament in England and he is worried about the direction we are taking and is trying to warn us not to nationalize medical care. A lot of their drs left for America and Canada.

Comment by W. Dan Chance on April 10, 2009 at 7:36am: It looks like Obama has Detroit's attention so even though this group will still accept comments my focus is now on making sure that GM and Chrysler really "get it". Here is an encouraging piece of news:

In Boost for Detroit, Obama to Buy Fuel-Efficient Fleet for Uncle Sam
By Kendra Marr
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 10, 2009; Page A12

President Obama yesterday announced plans to buy 17,600 American-made, fuel-efficient cars and hybrids for the government fleet, the White House's latest gambit to steer aid to the nation's beleaguered automakers.

The move came in a week when the administration accelerated efforts to revive an industry suffering it lowest sales in decades. Earlier this week Obama dispatched a team of 15 finance experts to Detroit to work with General Motors and Chrysler on restructuring efforts. On Wednesday, the Treasury Department began to release $5 billion in aid to parts suppliers. And yesterday Ed Montgomery, the president's new adviser on auto communities and workers, visited Ohio to discuss what assistance might be needed there.

By June 1, the government plans to spend $285 million in stimulus funds to buy fuel-efficient vehicles from General Motors, Ford and Chrysler. The purchase is slated to include 2,500 hybrid sedans, the largest one-time purchase of hybrid vehicles to date for the federal fleet.

"This is only a first step, but I will continue to ensure that we are working to support the American auto industry during this difficult period of restructuring," Obama said in a statement.

Each vehicle must have a better fuel economy rating than the one it replaces. The government aims to boost the new fleet's overall fuel efficiency at least 10 percent.

The new cars are intended to reduce the government's gasoline consumption by 1.3 million gallons a year and prevent 26 million pounds of carbon-dioxide from entering the atmosphere, the administration said.

The General Services Administration, which is buying the cars, will also pledge $15 billion to test advanced technology vehicles, such as compressed natural gas buses and all-electric vehicles, in the federal fleet. These orders will be placed by Sept. 30.

"We look forward to showing him the many GM vehicles we have that will fit this purpose," GM spokesman Kerry Christopher said. Industry-wide, car companies expect to sell less than 10 million cars and trucks this year, the lowest level in more than two decades. Consumers are avoiding showrooms, and major rental car companies have cut back on fleet purchases as businesses and vacationers cut back on travel.

In the first quarter, 271 U.S. auto dealers went out of business, according to the National Automobile Dealers Association. The association estimates that about 1,200 dealers -- primarily sellers of domestic brands -- will close their doors this year.

Although Obama's purchases will give U.S. automakers some needed sales, it won't bring the industry back up to the boom years when Americans bought around 16 million vehicles annually.

"On the big scale, no, that's not going to change anyone's bottom line," said George Augustaitis, an analyst for CSM Worldwide.

But it is symbolic.

"This is a welcome and important step that reflects the president's commitment to the survival and revitalization of the domestic auto industry," Rep. Sander M. Levin (D-Mich.) said in a statement.

The administration has already loaned GM and Chrysler a combined $17.4 billion, and has offered more if the companies can cut debt and reduce labor costs. It continues to work to increase the flow of credit to potential car buyers and dealers. The president has also pledged to work with Congress to pass a "cash-for-clunkers" bill, which would offer cash incentives to people who trade in their older, fuel-inefficient cars for cleaner models.

During his campaign, Obama spoke of his desire to convert the White House fleet to battery-powered vehicles within the year, as security permitted, and by 2012 he said he wanted half of the cars the federal government buys to be plug-in hybrids or electric.

Meanwhile, Cleveland Mayor Frank G. Jackson met with Montgomery yesterday and emphasized his desire that local businesses that benefit from government help reinvest in the Cleveland economy. "Those dollars turn around the economy multiple times and help support small- and medium-size businesses that are on the brink," he said.

Montgomery promised he would bring that message to Washington.

"He understands, he understands," Jackson said

Comment by W. Dan Chance on March 31, 2009 at 5:43pm: For those of you who haven't been introduced to the Hypercar designed and built by the Rocky Mountain Institute as a concept vehicle, I submite this link. NOVA broke it up into several separate but automatically self loading videos, one after the other. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/car/efficiency.html The car does NOT have to look like this. I prefer the shape of a Buick sedan. Just change materials, body and frame (carbon fibre not steel), electronics, window and tire tech plus power plant. Detroit could do this tomorrow with the right incentive and now that Obama has shown them the gallows on which they will hang if they don't do something, I think they might think better of "the light".

Comment by W. Dan Chance on March 30, 2009 at 3:20pm: Here's the latest I have seen on the auto-industry. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/30/AR2009033001239.html?wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter
I wrote the follow response to the Washington Post. I am delighted that Wagoner is leaving but the board should also be vetted and every member who comes from an oil company should leave because I believe the oil industry has unwisely restricted the choices given to the buying public for far too long. Oil companies want to sell oil so they fight efficiency standards. They do not want alternative energy vehicles so GM has not produced them and when the EV1 surprised them and did well they pulled the plug, stopping production and calling in the units already snapped up by the market. All this talk of restructuring the company financially is mostly BS. If GM were forced to make the GREAT hybrids they have the TALENT to produce they would immediately gain tremendous market share and economic viability.
Big Oil would puke but creditors, workers, suppliers and whoever I left out (except for oil) would be delighted.

More that I didn't say to the Washington Post. What do we have to do to get those bozos to build the car we need to kick the habit of oil that is robbing the US economy of hundreds of billions of dollars EVERY YEAR?

Comment by W. Dan Chance on March 20, 2009 at 8:45pm: Dear Dr. Kuglar, I don't think I have thanked you for your post. Yes, marvelous advances in Automotive design have been made already and we need to make that point as we push for changes in what Detroit plans its next model year. We must not allow them to keep putting off the technologies that others have already pioneered. China has already begun production of a plug in hybrid and GM says it will be 2010 before they will have the Chevy Volt in production (if then). This is completely unacceptable!!! That's why I contend that we need to remove the heads in Detroit and bring in people who believe in the technology.

Comment by W. Dan Chance on March 20, 2009 at 8:32pm: Hi friends, It's 10:15 pm and I'm sleepy. Just a note here. (I must really like pain because I know I'm in the minority of not having a taste for either alcohol or organized sports.) We have fallen for the same ploy that ruined the ancient Romans. Their Ceasars offered the masses of Rome "Bread and Circuses" to passify them. entertain them Divert their minds and fill their bellies and they will let those in power go on running the country and stealing all their wealth. We have foundational documents (thanks Marty for bringing them to our attention.) but we have neglected them for so long that their strength is entangled in nets woven by silvertonged devils. We ourselves are designated as the rulers and hold the rod of power. We do not know what we have in our hand and stand it in the corner while we go back for another beer or change the channel to catch the action on another ball game or drama. I fear that we have allowed (because we went to sleep on watch) those in power to hem us in as Chris points out and we must use all the craftiness we can muster to reclaim our heritage without stretching our necks. We may be the last generation that remembers what we had. We must not leave this task for the next generation. How will they restore what they do not miss? Be no less stalwart in the battle but plan to win not to spill your blood as a glorious sacrifice.

Comment by Chris Lewis on March 20, 2009 at 6:01pm: Because they will be no 'Peaceful' revolution. Our government is poised to initiate marshal law in the blink of an eye at the least sign of unhappiness of the masses.