Okey-sounds bizarre, Health Care + Energy

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Permalink Reply by Clyde Childers on June 8, 2009 at 12:04pm

A ctually, gas is one of the cleaness type odf grilling there is. It was my understanding that ancient man mainly ate berries,roots and nuts. That why they are so good for you since that is what we really grew up on over time. Meat was rare since the skills of killing have only been perfected over last 3000 years.

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Gina M.-S. on June 8, 2009 at 12:27pm

There is indication that the hunt of meat consumption started well within a 10,000 years ago... The perfection of hunting skills then the domestication of animals with agriculture occurred close to 6000+ years ago.

Ancient man ate all kinds of food stuffs. Food prep occurred in different ways. If our distant cousins, the great apes: Gorillas, Bonobos, and Chimps eat berries, roots, nuts and insects, then some how by our advance to various prep foods, like meat products to hone into a hunt/fish to higher engineering forms, like agriculture/domestication/aquaculture... We need a strong protein source because the energy production is long lasting during times of famine.

The way I understand it and it is thought that some human populations stopped nomadic lifestyle because traveling with "your house on your back" etc. was too much. So finding defendable land, commenced. The genetic evidence is suggesting that is what happened and that is the literature I keep my eye on.

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Permalink Reply by Clyde Childers on June 8, 2009 at 12:32pm

thanks for is update. I live region where berries, fruits and nuts are everywhere. The valley here in western Oregon is rich in these antioxides materials. Oregon Strawberries are season right now. There one of my favorites. Raseberries are next!! Can hardily wait!!!

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Gina M.-S. on June 8, 2009 at 12:44pm

LOL!!! I'm jealous!!! I am almost in your same area, Washington... I'm not into berries--like Marion, but it is good for you... I like both Raspberries and Strawberries. I prefer Pecans...

You are right about the anti-oxidants. What ancient man would do, is develop these as their form of health care in poultice. But it did not protect against major infections, like flu, plague and other illnesses. That really was not really understood until the 1700's and after Pasteur showed what he showed.

As for Chronic illnesses, like diabetes, high cholesterol, cancer, etc. it was told to me by scientists at Merck, that back in those days, man starved significantly in their lives. They usually died due to infection--TB is another one... If they got these diseases, they just died whenever.

These days, our longevity is improved due to vaccination against many diseases that kill, Diptheria, Pertussis, Tetnus, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Smallpox for those of a certain age--I was one of the last few... Polio and now HepB, Some flus, and a few others. But the deadly stuff, like Swine Flu, HIV, SARS... That will be increasing due to global warming...

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Permalink Reply by Robert Schultz on June 8, 2009 at 12:52pm

I personally use propane and propane accessories, ala Hank Hill.

I've been researching Biochar from an article in Mother Earth News referring to Terra Preta soils created in the Amazon about 1000 years ago. Turns out there are practical uses for the process of turning wood products to charcoal. By reducing the oxygen in the combustion chamber, more of the carbon remains in the charcoal, creating carbon filtration for water and nutrients entering the soil. The simplest "stoves" can be made from coffee cans, or 2 clay pots, which is an interesting side project to help feed the poor and utilize meager fuel supplies more efficiently.

There are purely solar stoves made from Foil reflector boxes that can be found at:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Solar-cookers/

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Gina M.-S. on June 8, 2009 at 1:08pm

You said:

Turns out there are practical uses for the process of turning wood products to charcoal. By reducing the oxygen in the combustion chamber, more of the carbon remains in the charcoal, creating carbon filtration for water and nutrients entering the soil.

So, how does more of the carbon remain in the charcoal? I am confused?

And people have issues with taking down trees for charcoal...

The other issue is, Americans are not going to eat anything out of the ground unless they are at a luau... The Health Department is not going to give you a food handlers permit if you take things out of the ground.

Why I am saying this, if I were to develop a "competition" BBQ for say, cooking some kind of meat, I have to do it health safe following what the Health Department asks...

So what can be easily portable, not in the ground, but the after products can be put into the ground with out the EPA on our asses, and cook competitively for expert tasters to enjoy the food?

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Permalink Reply by Robert Schultz on June 8, 2009 at 1:30pm

Oh no, I guess I need to be more clear. The food doesn't go into the ground. The charcoal, after the pyrolosis process, goes into the ground. Creating richer soil for growing more food.

Because the fuel is the gases released by the heated wood in an inner chamber, it is similar to cooking with propane. If I understand the process correctly, the wood material has 50% more mass left behind as charcoal, than if it had burned completely in an oxygen atmosphere to ash. The Forest Service is working on projects to create energy using slash material from logging operations. Done properly, they could also use the Biochar to enrich the soil and replant the harvested area for future timber growth.

There are ways to build stoves for baking, cooktops, or BBQ's which could use biogas from the biochar process of converting wood scraps to charcoal.

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Gina M.-S. on June 8, 2009 at 1:48pm

Can one take the charcoal later and "recycle" it to the appropriate approved location? Because people may not want to take on that material without some "ruling" that they can do so... So, that kind of thing would have to have some kind of "guideline"--which in this State includes water table, aquafiers, safe use, etc. You know Western Washington...

Now that stove is small. How can in be expanded for these folks who are cooking for say 100 people?

Slash material... How, condensed is it? We have to make it easy access, because lazy people will not make anything work if it is too hard...

How long would it take to make the Biochar? Can this be mass produced and sold? Because, if it takes too much, Americans are just not that patient...

Another issue, what does the food taste like if you use this process? Does it taste like anything? What's the prep time like? From the time I light it to the time the food winds up on my plate? Currently for regular charcoal with lighter fluid, it's ~30 minutes. For propane is ~20 minutes.

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Permalink Reply by Robert Schultz on June 8, 2009 at 2:22pm

Mix charcoal with steer manure and you've got a great fertilizer. I'm pretty sure you could just mix the charcoal into your garden soil. Carbon is used extensively for water filtration, adding it to the soil would help protect our aquifers. As you can tell, I'm still doing lots of research on this topic.

Biochar Products Demonstration Plant
Biochar Products is in the early stages of developing a biochar 10 Dry Ton Per Day biochar plant to be located on the old Ellingson Lumber mill site near Halfway, Oregon. The plant will be portable so it can be moved into the forest during months where fuels reduction projects are occurring. Chipped waste wood can be utilized on site and the bio-oil and charcoal hauled out of the forest as a completed product.

Objectives for the Demonstration Plant

* Demonstrate an industry that can have a significant impact on reducing greenhouse gases
* Demonstrate an industry that utilizes waste forest fuels
* Demonstrate an industry that produces carbon negative heating oil
* Demonstrate the benefits of char amendment to soils to improve local farmland
* Demonstrate scalable industry for economic development in rural communities
* Demonstrate that the biochar industry can provide living wage jobs
* Demonstrate a model that can be replicated nationwide

For more information, contact Eric Twombly, BioChar Products founder.
http://www.biocharproducts.com/

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Permalink Reply by Allen R. Gale on June 8, 2009 at 5:05pm

How about a "good ol' New England Clam Bake"?

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Gina M.-S. on June 8, 2009 at 5:41pm

Great idea! Pardon my ignorance, as I am not from New England. Would you like to expound on how that is "green", environmentally healthy and overall healthy? And BBQ will this be on? And how about us vegetarians... :o)

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Permalink Reply by Bob Shultis on June 9, 2009 at 3:58am

Hi Gina. Interesting, and lively, discussion!

Although not a vegetarian, I have consumed my share of veggie dogs and burgers, bacon, sausages, and brats. They are pretty tasty really. Usually cooked in the microwave or on a George Foreman grill, or over a campfire. No charcoal or lighter fluid.

I like your sense of humor! And your commitment to reforming health care. As to the energy psychos, we have seen a couple already, in another discussion group. Enough said.

You're right, energy reform and health care reform are closely tied, for several reasons. First, most fundamentally, at some point, if we don't change our approach to consuming fossil fuels, the earth will warm even more than already, and we can only guess at the health implications. The spread of tropical diseases, development of new diseases, and the displacement of millions, to name just a few. Second, the legislative processes seem similar. Both health and energy reform must overcome very powerful, entrenched lobbying groups (Big Oil, HMOs) to see their day in the sun. Both are also critical for the well being of our country and its people. Third, both may cost in the short run, but will pay back in the long run. For example, it costs to build a wind farm (my field). Once it is built and commissioned, it pays. Same with the national power grid- very expensive up front, but great long-term benefits (enabling expanded deployment of wind and solar power to name two). Also with health care provided for more people- sure, it costs up front, but the result should be a healthier population, which pays in many ways, human and economic.

I also agree with Clyde regarding tree farms and carbon sequestration. And, yes, that does impact health care, although maybe not directly. First, more trees means more green space and hopefully more bio-diversity. I know it's far-fetched, but do we know for sure that a cure for some disease is not lurking in some species of tree, waiting to be discovered? The less bio-diversity, the less chance of that happening. Second, more trees helps slow the aforementioned global warming. Third, forests are just a nice place to relax and blow off stress.

Best regards,
Bob Shultis IA-03

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