Okey-sounds bizarre, Health Care + Energy

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Permalink Reply by Clyde Childers on June 7, 2009 at 3:11pm

okay

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Gina M.-S. on June 7, 2009 at 3:12pm

I'll start:

I was a lead for the President Obama's Health Care Reform Kickoff yesterday, June 6th. I am highly PO'ed about it. People are PASSIONATE about reforming healthcare to the point I had arguments at my meeting. IDK what you all may have seen if you attended any in your communities, but mine was fugly!!! So just to warn you, when you start with Energy, watch for the psychos...

Anyhow, I have a idea about a community service/awareness project:

Due to proprietary rules, I have changed the title of the project. It entitled "Ferrous Oxide Chef BBQ Green Cook-off" (smile, a little laughter yoga here!!!)

Is there a GREEN way to BBQ? Like using solar, green charcoal (compost?) and cook high-end healthy foods off a grill? Or is this sacrilege? Meaning, NO ONE BBQ's in any way with healthy green products!!! Can it be done? And can the food taste scrumptious?

Moreover, I am a strict vegetarian, so I am into veggie burgers and hot dogs... Yeah, to carnivores I must taste really delicious. But, can we change the way we cook our food and still have it be healthy and delicious?

What say you? How?

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Permalink Reply by Clyde Childers on June 7, 2009 at 3:31pm

If you realy want renewable enrgy to become the a reality in America, you need to enact feed-in Tariffs in US. all of programs at under the climate bill will not build america's industries or put American to work, or for that matter, increase our output of renewable energy.

What I really find about this climate bill is that fail to address the one thing that could revoluntionize rural america by having all of our citizens get involved in being apart of the solutions withe feed-in tariffs and green farms.

For example, carbon companies allowed in the bill doesn't even mention the fact that tree farms, forest regions, and other green crops could extract carbon dixiode out the air, It is only targeting the large utility companies and their friends who have little to gain. What is wrong with a section called "green farming" A green farm are crops that extract co2 out of air that certified by EPA or other licenced ogranization to validate the amount of CO2 extrracted from the air as green farm or ranch. Such ranch can sell or trade it carbon credit to other organizations.

This isn't even allowed under the law.

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Gina M.-S. on June 7, 2009 at 3:40pm

Hi Clyde,

I somewhat follow you, how does CO2 air extraction help health care, exactly? I'm confused?

Dr. G-

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Permalink Reply by Jay Rosenberg on June 28, 2009 at 8:51pm

Hi DGMS
Let me be blunt. Energy and health care is about economics. Energy adds other bombshell items" namely geopolitics, e.g., vote for me (in the UN) , see things my way or I will turn off your supply of gas. 2 World Wars were faught, in part over Oil. Nazi Germany had technology ahead of the West but not the fuel! Oil and religion also mix. The Protestant revolution introduced the idea that to be successful was Gods will, he would smile on you if you were successful on Earth, not just in heaven. The enormous economic power is viewed as devine by many. , The big companies want big projects, e.g., Grid, Nuclear, "clean coal", .. Of course, reducing the complex to the simple is intelligence, so instead of a giga dollar grid we can have off-grid power. As Einstein said, the physics I understand, the politics no. If you want to see where Renewable Energy is a rush to get fed at the investment / government trough -- check out how much NET electricity is produced at what cost for multi-hundred acre Concentrated Solar Projects. Ask how many solved the environment problems such as water to clean the acres of mirrors and what if there's sirocco (wind storms), and it blows away! Ask to see the results not the promises, or the next generation!

Check out also Ethanol, (Farm states have equal senators, 2 per state), Ethanol is called moonshine. There's enough rubs here for a message! We grow the crops in one part of the country, convert them to ethanol in another, and the markets are in a third! Add to that the huge bump in food costs, because ethanol stock is food for us, or animal feed. Oh yes, another point, DISTRIBUTION. You can't distribute ethanol via pipelines, only tanker cars, trucks. Try leasing them in advance, see how far you will get. Plus, ethanol costs more to produce and consumes more energy than the result - which BTW is only 90% of the energy content of gasoline re BTUs.

Another aspect is, its a business, and those in control - control the gates, and protect their ignorance, and give poor advice. Its a livelyhood to many. Who told Al Gore 100% electricity from renewable in 10 years?? First electricity is 10% of our ENERGY, so he is suggesting 10% solution in 10 years. Of course not. But, where did he get that advice from, and did he pay for it??

Health Care: We can solve that problem, but look at the push back forces. Did you know US RN's do not require a college degree in the US (Last state which did was one of the Dakotas, but thats been scratched). Why? Because, then Foreign nurses could come into the US under H1 Visas! And why do doctors, hospitals etc., have LESS automation, more inefficiency, mis/wrong diagnosis than my Volvo repair shop (not even a licensee). This is really tragic how can you do no harm, if your staff, and your environment you work under does so much harm, including cost harm. Why dont the doctors sacrifice like the rest of our country to get over this near depression?? Check out the history of the Nurse Practicioners. Why/ when did they enter the picture? We needed medical staff for Vietnam, so congress acted. Of course, the Doctors did not like them, afterwards, competition, check out the law suits against NP's setting up medical shop, writting RX in Delaware recently. 3,000 tragic deaths occur by terrorists, we go to war, spend probably a trillion dollars. 10's of thousands die from poor health care, inadequate access, retrictive legalisms (e.g., how about paying a machine $10, for the results, why does a $10 lab fee with a printout become a $100 charge? We are 13th or so highest mother child birth deaths. 50% of all bankruptcies are caused by medical.

Enough said. We need to wake up. .

I;ve been part of successful prior tech revolutions. The bigs may win, by buying into, or buying the technology. My company is intent to commercialize RET, a high efficiency, low cost, multifruel Green engine. RET powered cars can get 150 MPG. Savings for US in terms of oil 1 billion bbls/year. Nothing against batteries, except their cost, and weight, and they cant do trucks, busses etc. We also have NGWED plans for next gen. Wind Turbines where the cost/KW will reduce to $500. You want to conquer energy, thats simple, steeply reduce the cost of renewable. Our plans are for $.05/kWh provided to residential, government and industry. We have to be careful to have a "its the economics stupid" solution, else we will simply change who we pay for what we desparately need. Where are we going to put all the legacy equipment? BTW energy for the most part is a zero sum game. Electrons have no name.

This think I, say I, and do I:
Jay R, CEO, Sannerprojects, Inc SANNERWIND@gmail.com

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Permalink Reply by Robert Schultz on June 7, 2009 at 3:23pm

How about using a stove used to make biochar? Cooking the food using biogas, and returning the charcoal to the soil. Even reusing the charcoal for cooking, you get twice the usage out of the same amount of wood.

Here's a site showing woodgas stoves used for cooking in 3rd world countries:http://www.woodgas.com/woodcooking.htm

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Gina M.-S. on June 7, 2009 at 3:39pm

Hi Robert,

Thanks for your answer.

Are you talking about this stove?

Is it large enough for the "Brontosaurus Burgers" that many a hungryman loves on July 4th...

The other issue is blackened food is highly carcinogenic. So it has to be cooked just enough. Moreover, our meat industry, despite recent reports, is rather healthly--i.e. the animals are not grossly sick by the time it winds up on the table... And in 3rd world countries, they eat bush meat, that is too dangerous for any human consumption. It is thought that HIV/AIDS and a few other infections were "procured" that way...

Just asking? Keep the discussion rolling...

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Permalink Reply by Clynton on June 7, 2009 at 6:36pm

First, ROLFLM[YKW]O

We've seen passions flare from day one on this site - with people throwing solid mud-like material and many getting their feelings hurt/etc. It's interesting that you mentioned HIV/etc. I understand that when one is used to certain foods or microbes, they actually develop a tolerance. So I would hope the "bush meat" is good for some humans to consume... It's, of course, not my cup of tea.

I really like Clyde's idea of tree farms and FITs, but that's probably too logical for our congressional leaders... I also like your idea of a Metal Chef Green Cook-Off. Perhaps someone here knows someone who knows a Sustinence Network producer...

As far as green and healthy cooking... the first things that come to mind are solar ovens. They can get really hot, and if not big enough, they (and the mirrors) can be made even bigger. The second things that come to mind are TongMitts for fighting food-borne diseases... but then I'm partial. lol.

Now, about vegetarians... I hear they taste{end transmission}

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Permalink Reply by Robert Schultz on June 7, 2009 at 9:05pm

How to Serve Humans...

Clynton, you must be an old sci-fi fan.

Dr. Gina,
I am just learning about Biochar, and biogas stoves. They heat wood chips or other types of biomass, until is releases "biogas" which is then burned like propane. The wood chips themselves remain in a chamber inside the stove and become charcoal. The pyrolosis process leaves more of the carbon in the wood, which can then be used as a soil amendment to help with poor soil quality, or the charcoal can be used like typical BBQ charcoal. I many poor countries this gives more fuel for cooking and can help improve farming.
Here is an article from Kelpie Wilson, who is also a member of the Pacific NW Biochar Initiative, which has a Google discussion group.

New Biochar Stoves at the 2009 Ethos Conference in Washington State, USA
By Kelpie Wilson, IBI Media Liaison
http://www.biochar-international.org/projectsandprograms/memberproj...
On January 23 – 25, about 100 “stovers” gathered in Kirkland, Washington for the annual ETHOS (Engineers in Technical and Humanitarian Opportunities of Service) conference devoted to meeting household energy needs in the developing world. Improved stove technology was only part of a program that included discussion of standards and testing, distribution and manufacturing, and the intricacies of carbon credit financing.

The highlight of the conference occurred at the ceremonial “lighting of the stoves” late on Sunday afternoon on the concrete steps outside the conference hall under a light flurry of snow. A variety of innovative designs were on display, but only two of the stoves were able to operate in a pyrolysis mode to produce charcoal.

Paul Anderson, an independent stover who works with the Biomass Energy Foundation, demonstrated a TLUD (top-lit updraft gasifier) stove using natural draft that leaves a charcoal residue after cooking is done. The char can be saved by dumping it in a covered bucket or pot to stop combustion. Anderson has two versions, what he calls the “refugee” stove made of tin cans, and the “artisan” version that will be manufactured in India. Plans for constructing the stoves will be freely available soon on the bioenergy listserve at http://www.bioenergylists.org/.

Biochar advocates at the conference were very intrigued with the Lucia stove invented by entrepreneur Nat Mulcahy of WorldStove. Mulcahy is an industrial designer who has thrown himself into the project of bringing a sophisticated, high performance biomass stove to mass markets worldwide. Contrary to the approach of many stove designers who search for designs that can be easily manufactured in poor countries, Mulcahy wondered what could be accomplished using advanced manufacturing technology. He found that metal injection molding allowed him to make a burner with a swirl pattern resulting in highly efficient combustion and heat transfer. When used with a fan, the stove can be operated in a pyrolysis mode that produces charcoal. You can see his pyrolysis demonstration at the WorldStove YouTube channel at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2VvZVw-XuY

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Gina M.-S. on June 7, 2009 at 10:11pm

Sounds interesting, thanks for the info, I'll check it out! They are where I am and maybe we could prepare a challenge cookoff with their products--direct testing!!!

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Gina M.-S. on June 7, 2009 at 10:08pm

Clynton,

Not quite sure I follow. Ummm, you cannot consume improperly prepared raw food without treatments because humans will not ever tolerate the viruses, which are not microbes or bacteria, fungi or protists, in bush meat... They do not burn off by fire. That is how it is has been throughout history of major diseases--like Bubonic Plague to Smallpox...

That is why we are protected of our foodstuffs in the US. While it needs more regulation (i.e. peanuts), over all there are very few people who are eating wild-caught foodstuffs in this country. All we can say is "good luck with that" as try the last ditch antibiotic Vancomycin...

I do not understand Clydes Tree Farm, can you explain it to me?

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Permalink Reply by Clyde Childers on June 7, 2009 at 10:25pm

Glad to

simple: a full grown douglas fir tree convert 6 tons of CO2 gas into pure oxgyen and food for the tree per year A small tree used for Xmas will extract and convert 1/2 ton per year. Normally, one acre of tree farm has 1500 trees or 750 tons at $28 a tons to be traded as carbon credits. So, average 10 acre tree farm could average $210,000 a year from selling the green credits. The currently cap and trade bill in the climate bill regarding the carbon capture segment is only structured for coal and fossel fuel and large users. In fact the new carbon trading companies can only be owned by coal and fossel fuel companies...section 114. It doesn't allow for green farms to be a sink for CO2 for rural America to participate. Typical congressional move, reward the large clients and leave the little guy out of the legistation.

Both Lidar and Satellites can detect the present and absorption of CO2. So, it would be easy to certify these green farms allowing for the sequestration of CO2 gases. There are many plants that could qualify for this activity allowing for farmers and ranchers to add additional income to the rural region.

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