Waste water - the use of hydrolysis or other methods.

I am starting this blog to obtain inputs, show others that there are possibilities to work in their local communities and to provide an educational forum for some practical ways of addressing our energy needs while dealing with a problem that is getting more severe world wide. The availability of clean water. Independent of your belief in global warming, there is definately stress on available clean water world wide.

There are three sources of waste water that I am my colleagues approach: Sewage treatment facilities, Brine water from oil fields, and waste water from desalination plants. The technology is not earth shattering just good basic engineering, but economical.

Sewage treatment facilities have the following basic products available for sale: Methane, dirty irrigation water (biologically dirty) and fecal products. Adding electrolysis provided by alternative sources provides these additional products: Hydrogen, Chlorine or oxygen and solid precipitates. Adding regeneration of electricity utilizing the hydrogen from the electrolysis provides these additional products: level loading electricity capabilities, clean water and heat. Thus economically different stages can be approached depending on the value of the product.

Similiar results are obtained from Brine water (oil fields) and waste water (Desalination plants). The nanoparticle technology included in the brine water pretreatment before electrolysis pulls additional oil out of the brine (300 ppm to 0.5 ppm - first pass). The oil is then recovered in a heating column which can use the waste heat of electric regeneration from the hydrogen fuel cell.

Keep in mind though that energy is not created or lost, just changed in form. We utilize solar and wind to obtain the original energy. Efficiencies of hydrolysis are on the order of 80 to 85% the rest is accounted for in heat. Efficiencies of cogeneration (hydrogen fuel cell and heat) are on the order of 80%. Thus only 60 tp 65% of the original electricity generated is recovered. Without the additional products for sale, the use of hydrogen as a storage media for electric regeneration is not feasible economically. But also keep in mind that if the grid does not need the electricity when the wind is blowing or the sun is shining, then you also have no economic return.

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Permalink Reply by Robert Schultz on October 7, 2009 at 10:04am: Excellent post John. Just as important as the work James Tracy and others are doing by working on converting solid waste to energy. We need to be aware that there are better things we can do with our waste water than just treating it and pouring it back into our rivers, and dumping the solids into landfills. Work in harmony with nature and utilize the potential of our waste products through conversion processes which create usable products from what we once thought was just "waste".; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by James Tracy on October 7, 2009 at 11:12am: I agree, with only 3% of earths water, being freshwater. We need more methods of purifying water for drinking, agriculture, and energy uses. There is alot of energy (hydrogen) in our waste water, human/animal waste that goes into our rivers, lakes and streams. Current methods, leave alot of chemicals in the water you drink. Regardless of whether it is trace phamacuticals, perchlorate and hydrazine. We are being poisoned by the very water we drink, and the food we eat.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Lou De Frog on October 7, 2009 at 6:38pm: John.

The biggest problem with sewage treatment is that toxins enter the drains that run into the sewers and can not be removed, so the water that flows back into the rivers and the sludge that gets buried in toxic landfill are unusable and a serious source of pollution resulting in ocean and river dead zones. Our present sewer system also loses most of its methane up those vent pipes that stick out of every roof.

This problem will not go away until we adopt a sewage disposal that can process the waste very close to where it gets produced. This would be a bio gas generator in every subdivision that would be built into every new development and which would produce electricity and pathogen free clean (toxin free) fertilizer. These digestors also produce enough heat to warm a building.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by John Nistler on October 8, 2009 at 7:13am: Lou, electrolysis tends to break compounds into its elements. Ketones such as acetone, acohols such as methanol, etc are converted into Hydrogen and other compounds that break down typically into oxygen and carbon. Precipitates tend to be calcium carbonate, etc with some heavy metal precipitate. One of the things that we consider constantly is "if" economically it makes sense to "mine" our precipitates and will discuss this saturday with a lab about certain analysis to determine ppm.

Methane digestion does raise the question of potential pathogens in the fertilizer. This is an area still being addressed and I do not want to claim it is an answered problem.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by John Nistler on October 8, 2009 at 7:20am: Regards,
John; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by Shon D. Lenzo on October 8, 2009 at 6:42am: I have often considered setting up a site to dispose of oilfield brine
near the intersection of I 70 and I 77.
The brine is available,
and water haulers have said they would dispose of it at my location,
because it is convenient.
What do you suggest would be a way to get a brine disposal bussiness set up on site,
and running, would it make a profit?
Thanks,
Shon; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by John Nistler on October 8, 2009 at 7:20am: Hello Shon, just an issue of money. We usually enter into a shared profit scenario with the original facility owners. Contracts vary depending on the circumstances and what the owner typically wants as their final share.

First thing to look at is the overall economics. How much water and how consistently. Can we charge a disposal fee since they are already transporting? For large groups, one of the advantages is the lack of liability due to disposal. In presenting an overall proposal this is of a lot of interest to larger corporations.

Any investor, including yourself (even if you are not putting up the money, it is your time, your property, etc) will want guaranty of delivery of the brine water, 25 year plus contracts with automatic renewal. If you have any plans to sale the facility long term, you will need these contracts in place.

Regards, John; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by John Nistler on October 13, 2009 at 8:00am: James,
We are in tests right now with basic DC voltages and currents on the latest multi-cell model prior to high frequency DC and Plasma testing. There have been some basic questions about some iron impurities that got into our anode material. But I am pretty sure where it came from. The biggest issue is actually one of economics. One site we are exploring right now for sewage water treatment unfortunately only has an average of 8 mph thus wind energy will cost $1.14/kWHr for the first year and $0.114/kWHr if amortised over 4 years. Take into account the efficiencies of conversion and the price of the bulk hydrogen and chlorine sales will have to cover a high initial investment. Technology is there, but costs are questionable.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by James Tracy on October 13, 2009 at 9:35am: Nice John, I really enjoyed our phone conversation the other day. I like what you are doing, it is excellent. I really thank you for the other info too. I knew I was stuck, but need an outside perspective, someone who had made it past where I am.

Thanks John
James; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by John Nistler on October 22, 2009 at 3:13pm: Hi James, the initial grant will cover some of the preliminary installations (assuming all goes well :-) A lot of this is structural, security fencing, pump house plus office, pre-production electrolysers combined with a <10KW solar power plant (with single axis tracking and controls). The second grant application is going into place now and we are going after 50KW of solar, additional electrolyzers and a hydrogen fuel cell power plant. Depending on our model tests, I plan on including plasma or high frequency DC sources on the electrolyzers as we discussed earlier.

The second grant is actually designated specifically for Texas Rural Sewage treatment, so we are in pretty good shape there. Additional grant capabilities also exist for Rural Electrification, Methane digestion, etc.

Meanwhile, I am in contact with oil field operators in the Luling, Texas area. 15 barrels of brine are pumped for every 1 barrel of oil.

I have the advantage of others doing some of the work. :-) Especially in the area of grants, it starts to become a full time job.; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by James Tracy on October 22, 2009 at 3:21pm: I do really like your work John. I am pleased you are getting that very important work done.
Water is life.

Congrats!; ▶ Reply to This

Permalink Reply by John Nistler on October 23, 2009 at 8:16am: Thanks, it looks like we will produce enough sodium hydroxide in solution that we can make bleach on site with the Chlorine. This addresses multiple liability issues, transporation issues and actually reduces the Chlorine quality necessary. Otherwise we would have to ship dry liquified chlorine, a great deal more technically difficult then bleach.

In addition, we have opted to upgrade the model being used by our test engineer and talked with the plastic fabricator yesterday. Interesting enough, a lightweight electrolyzer is still of interest to me personally for other reasons.; ▶ Reply to This