We want to Invest in the Pickens Plan

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Comment by Richard Barnard on June 10, 2009 at 8:05am

Bonnie

I agree with Wiliam. How do we get your intelligent, articulate voice heard? Your post was probably the only one in the last couple of months that showed any common sense.

Richard Barnard

Comment by William Engwer on June 9, 2009 at 4:30pm

Bonnie, you're right on target, and you explain the truth of the situation well. I've wondered about the hysteria to go electric and fuel-cell when there's a huge amount that can be saved just by implementing a little intelligent conservation, and utilizing existing tech that can be deployed, as you say, virtually overnight, like CNG for vehicles.

I was hoping that the current administration would choose an energy policy adviser who had some practical, technical knowledge of the hardware involved and its limitations but was disappointed in the choice. Of course, as long as the solution to America's energy crisis is portrayed as trainloads of cash and government involvement, Joe Mainstreet doesn't have to take any personal responsibility for making things better, and limiting personal responsibility is always good politics.

Wouldn't it be nice to hear Mr. Obama address the nation and say most of what you've said in your post? Come to think of it, how do we get your intelligent, articulate voice heard by the people who most need to hear what you have to say? Wm.Engwer

Comment by Bonnie S on June 9, 2009 at 3:55am

Just to educate you:

First, there is not lots of capital out there. Despite the nice yield curve, banks are not lending, even to high quality outfits. Also, for fear of getting taken over by our government, they’re trying like hell to give back any TARP money they were stupid enough to take in the first place.

How has the stock market divided the capital pool, putting the smaller investor at risk? This makes no sense. And if you had invested since the first of the year, you'd be sitting pretty, no matter how many bad decisions you made (as long as it was in the stock market).

And if you study, you'll find our administration actually supports and subsidizes (and buys) those crappy companies guilty of bad accounting, bad management, etc. at the expense of smaller smart and ethical companies. Lets see...GM? Chrysler? AIG?

And speaking of energy investing, which this site is supposed to be about.

Too many people (virtually all our brain-dead congress and our executive branch too) want to jump right to electric vehicles, solar and wind energy without much of a clue how expensive it will be and how long it will take. This is OK and I think it should be done, but they're missing the big bang-for-the-buck in the meantime. For example, our current wind energy use is about 1.7% worldwide. To double this or quadruple this will take a lot of money and time. Meanwhile, no one pays much attention to what can be done virtually overnight, and that’s energy conservation. I guess because its too easy, doesn’t generate news and isn’t cool. But isn’t it better to NOT use energy than to find new ways to produce and use it?

If you’re looking for energy investments that will actually make you money, I’d concentrate on energy conservation rather than high tech alternates. Concerning wind, the technology has reached its zenith. I don’t care how many (apparently) cool looking machines you see, it comes down to aerodynamics and just good mechanical to electrical conversion. There just ain’t no bypassing physics. Concerning solar, the costs are so far from parity, it ain’t even close. Certainly, we need to pursue, but look for the low-hanging-fruit. How about smart grid (a very good idea). Check out IBM or CSCO or that company that put in the system in Boulder, CO (can’t remember their name). How about efficient motors? Check out GE, Siemens, Baldor. How about more efficient cars? Watch out for Ford and Mitsubishi. How about insulation? Try Owens Corning. How about CNG vehicles? Try CLNE.

Now, if you really wanna support that outfit that’s developing some sort of dream machine in the garage, go for it. After all, this is what dreams are made of. But be prepared. Chances are you’ll lose (but you might win big) and your money sure won’t be liquid. If you’re going to do this, follow the money. Arno: If I can believe you, you might be involved in maybe a winner. The thing is to follow the money if you can. However, most decent startup outfits won’t touch the small investor. They want contracts with people that “know their shit” and most investors don’t even touch companies that don’t show real promise or aren’t already “in-the-black”.

Please make sure your comments are backed up with evidence in the future.

Comment by Arno Lundin on June 4, 2009 at 10:54am

I have no idea I just support those like Paul and the one I have been grateful to be a part of which Bonnie may not like but there are enough others way more into using the technology once the all the dots and t's are done. Paul's comments were clearly understood. Bonnie broad comments like no one likes your idea are unfounded and reflect no quantifiable answer. The angst is this : There is lots of capital out there and Many technologies on the shelf not getting the capital to proceed. The pet project I worked with is not one of them it has full government, international and industry support and financial support. Paul's deal should have a backer a deep pocket beside him. The stock market has divided the capital pool which has put the smaller investor at risk. The financial industry is trying to alleviate its costs of raising capital because it is costing to much to raise funds. There is much that needs to be done to restore confidence in capital markets and news releases of illegal accounting and outright fraud by large public companies don't help the plan. Bonnie you can dislike what ever you like your still ok . Paul I hope you find a deep pocket. I look for the win for everyone.

Comment by Paul on June 3, 2009 at 10:43pm

Hey Bonnie,

Yes, No, I'm not pissed at Business people as much as I'm frustrated and annoyed. You said I don't know anything about them... Well that's somewhat correct. What can you tell me about them?

I do know that they like to assign tasks & deadlines to engineers, and expect the engineers to perform like well trained seals. I also know that when asked to provide deliverables they refuse to commit to a timetable and always seem to need 45 days to get *anything* negotiated. They see uncertainty in everything technical and lack the attention span to receive the proof that the engineering is rock solid.

I also know that like to use memorandum ( of understanding) that only convey intent and disclaimers, while being devoid of knowledge ( an interesting play on the word understanding).

In all fairness they do have some admirable qualities. They know that when the going gets tough the shrewd walk away. And that attitude creates 'opportunity' for the next wave.

And in the spirit of fairness Engineers can be terribly annoying to work with too. They are perfectionists. They will keep improving the technology right up to the last possible moment. If it weren't for business (small "b") people, we'd be using version "0.99 rev 856-j tertiary release candidate". And it would be *almost* perfect... :^)

OK that's enough, sorry Bonnie. So what can you tell me about Business (capital "B") people that I might have missed, or you suspect that I'm wrong about? Please be blunt, be brutal, don't hold back (like I did). ^_^

Until there is mutual understanding an communication there can be no progress. This is my call to action -- let's share a little knowledge. Here, now, otherwise this little forum truly has no purpose. Let's breathe a little life into it.

The Light is Green!

Comment by Bonnie S on June 3, 2009 at 8:51pm

I don't know if I sparked some brain cells or just poked you guys in the ass. I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing. The words do just start flowing out, but not in any comprehensible order that I can tell. Sounds like both you guys (Arno and Paul) are pissed about something but the general reader cannot tell. Paul is all pissed off about business people, but with little knowledge at all about them. Arno appears pissed that no one likes his idea, whatever that is.

Guys. I AM a business person and I HAVE an engineering degree. If you can't live with reality, tough. Thats just the way it is....and its the correct thing where my dollars are concerned. Arno: I do agree there's lots to be made "going green", but one needs to be very very careful. Many companies on this bandwagon will go under whereas many will thrive. As for me, I'm pretty knowledgeable about a few technologies, but can't follow them all. I do try to keep an eye on the money though, and most of the good stuff is flowing through VCs. However, most of these companies have not gone IPO, so those of us who are not rich have to just watch and wait.

Comment by Arno Lundin on June 3, 2009 at 8:27pm

I concur. I have been living on leaves and fresh air working the our plan. I think we all have a little gargoyle in us. lol Your post explains the catch 22 for real deals out there. Many things are out there that when added up will have a massive impact on how we live and how clean we could exist. We have almost 10 years of research, economic data, supply data etc. and it cost us thousands. Engineering and third party independent studies etc. BUT we are not a public company so.....We get all kinds saying the patent is full of holes and the list goes on yet the list of buyers grows and includes major multinationals ready to buy. We have spent major time on legal agreements, just to be able to sell the technology. There is still stuff to do before we close a deal and nobody seems to mind the wait. There in lies my angst. I'm with ya man. There is billions to be made going green. I'd like to see the investment dollar spent on the goal at hand not a money raising rodeo that never ends.
Gotta go My wife and I are now celebrating our 23 year of union. March on and remember Churchill: Never give up! Never, Never, Never!!!!! Love all y'all out there.

Comment by Paul on June 3, 2009 at 12:42pm

Hey Arno,

Courage huh... I'm so far out on a limb that the only step further out I can make is onto this springs' fresh green leaves. :^)

The bootstrap was what I tried to accomplish, but the market won't buy projects that look like they came out of a garage. And there's no way I can sell a prototype at a profit!

The feet on the pavement model simply doesn't exist in this arena. There has to be someone with deep pockets in the wings. Perhaps if I had two good arms to do the actual physical labor, but that possibility went away 4 years ago last week.

You're correct about seeking funds here -- there are a few folks that I've identified that *might* have the resources, but they keep that fact well concealed. I can't say I blame them. And you're also right in that they didn't come here looking for some idea to fund. BTW -- that gargoyle thing... you couldn't possible referring to me and my cheery disposition... could you? :^)

Hey, it's been a year, 3215 general posts read, another 500+ in the district leader fora, and several thousand more from the big events. I don't count the posts I've written; several hundred fer-sure[sic], maybe 1000 -- most of them too long (winded) {sorry} :^)

Despite the November implosion I still feel the Plan is a great idea. Despite the loss of momentum I've tried to keep my (good) shoulder to the wheel. But in this celebrity culture we've come to inhabit, I'm under no illusion that enough folks are really paying attention to what I'm saying to make an impact.

The Light is Green!

Comment by Arno Lundin on June 3, 2009 at 11:14am

Anger is the Prelude to Courage. Apparently there is not enough anger therefore no courage. The blame game is shared amongst us all. There is nothing stopping anyone from old fashion feet to the pavement marketing and manufacture. One customer at a time. Why do all the business plans need so much money? Build one sell one and you need not any politicians or business men for that. It takes longer but we are doing it. If you got something then sell it, not the business plan. If you can't sell your wares then hire a salesman on commission only even if you hate'm they'll get the sale done. Eating one bite at a time works. We add one bolt at a time, one pump at a time, one engineer at a time. Sure we would have liked a deep pocket to fast track the program and pay for all the engineering and we would have liked to sell a unit but no one buys unless there is a running unit and the engineering done not to mention all the other study this and that. I can't tell you how many builds I have been on where the engineers or the studies were wrong and had to be adapted on site by some uneducated laborer. That is the nature of progress but the result is a finished product in most cases. Tons of patents sit on shelfs because the courage is not there to push it. BE ANGRY BE VERY ANGRY and focus on your task and get it done or pack it in. Do not bite the hands that feed each other, help them feed each other. There are not many high risk investors out there that will sink a whack of money into ideas. There are certainly none in the Pickens Army. The Investors here are low risk market players. Really to fund an idea you need someone with way more money than brains like Branson and his flights to space. For life's sake don't ask for money or capital here they will fry you. Provide these listeners with trading stock tips of other companies that are in wind and cng that is the plan. Attach a wind something or a cng something to the solar and geothermal stuff and maybe the plan gargoyles will let you pass the first gate. Adapt and win. I'm sure it can be done. Vent and then really get mad.

Comment by Paul on June 3, 2009 at 10:30am

Good grief! A question for: Bruce D. Bongardt

Bruce, has *anyone* made use of the silly calendar? At first I thought it was a joke -- A National Lampoon or SNL spoof of a strange engineer's idle musings... Do you honestly think a company would pay a $5/worker royalty for an idea that *NO ONE* would be happy with? (then again there is always government)

Do us all a favor, stop using "Send Message to Group"! Use the effort to create a NIST grant proposal... or something else equally productive.

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