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looking to open conversation with folks that have a passion to build "Green" energy infastructure more specifically methane production and cng conversion of motor wehicles.

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Comment by Matt MacGown on July 10, 2008 at 6:18am
Hi David, I am really impressed with all the data you present and the format in which you present it in. Being a general contractor, I am excited with all these new technologies because I know that it is the future. Moreover, the time is now, to get licensed, approved and positioned to build out these new technologies as they emerge from the shadows. Keep up the good work!!! thanks, Matt
Comment by David Smith on July 9, 2008 at 12:31pm
The Small Scale Entrepreneur (Southeast U.S. – Small business is the American little engine that could)

Join this group and start a discussion string on methane production techniques and regulations.

Matt,

Will you start an additional discussion on Methane Energy Entrepreneur Development within the group? The group site should be used to help all of us understand what is possible for the Entrepreneur is this newly emerging set of technologies.

The Small Scale Entrepreneur (Southeast U.S. – Small business is the American little engine that could) (No political discussion please).


1. Political discussion is not wanted (only economic and technical solutions PLEASE).

2. Methane Energy technology regulations that affect the industry (please submit web address or attachment to support argument).

3. Regulations that affect infrastructural development (please submit web address or attachment to support argument).


4. Organizations that support the Methane Energy industry (please submit web address or attachment to support argument).


5. Technical data on devices used in the Methane Energy industry (please submit web address or attachment to support argument).
Comment by Matt MacGown on July 9, 2008 at 10:26am
HI David, thanks for all the good scoop!!
Comment by David Smith on July 9, 2008 at 9:54am
I do not know of any installers in your location. I would recommend you locate a city or state entity that uses CNG and see if they know of any certified installers. There is not a comprehensive list of installers developed, which needs to be done if this technology is expected to expand.

Here are a few sites to read that explain many of the difficulties involved in getting a certified kit.

http://www.ngvamerica.org/pdfs/FAQs_Converting_to_NGVs.pdf

http://www.ngvamerica.org/pdfs/marketplace/MP.Analyses.NGVs-a.pdf

http://www.ngvamerica.org/resources_tools/index.htm

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/article/0,,id=175456,00.html

http://www.cngchat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=214&page=2

I hope this helps.
Comment by Matt MacGown on July 8, 2008 at 5:58pm
Hi David, have been talking with firms in Australia and Italy. They have kits up and running for about everything on the road. I think it's time the EPA got off their methane and open the doors. In doing so, it should ease the pain for the short term until we get some other affordable solutions, Do you know of any approved kits currently in the US. Transits are using it as well as gas companies in MA
Comment by David Smith on July 8, 2008 at 4:03pm
Components of Natural Gas
Methane (CH4) = 70-90
Ethane (C2H6) = 5-15
Propane (C3H8) and Butane (C4H10) = < 5
CO2, N2, H2S, etc. = balance
Since methane is the majority gas present in CNG the production of methane would make sense.

The roadblock for natural gas is within the purview of the EPA. Right now it can cost from 100,000 to 200,000 dollars to certify an engine type for conversion. Since it bottlenecks the production of accepted conversion kits, the price for a conversion can average 10,000 for a passenger vehicle and up to 30,000 for larger vehicles. The incentives only cover 4,000 for a conversion leaving the customer with a 6,000-vehicle conversion. In addition, the number of vehicles on the approved list is miniscule. Until this is addressed the market will remain constricted and expansion will be very slow.
Comment by Matt MacGown on July 8, 2008 at 3:17pm
Hi david, I agree with you. That's why i am so excited about methane because everybody got some!!
Comment by David Smith on July 8, 2008 at 2:59pm
Both the liberal and conservative approaches has shown themselves to be bankrupt and determined to destroy the American economy. I am a centrist and see both approaches as completely unethical. We have to use a mixed bag approach to gain energy independence. The liberals sell economic pain while the conservatives sell dependence on oil. At least this approach gets outside of the proverbial box and addresses the issue in a truthful manner. As for PVC and electric automobiles, I simply see them as a part of the mix of energy systems that will slowly remove our dependence on oil.

I would think an environmentalist would support CNG since it is a bridge to hydrogen fuel. Below is a link to a site where the blending of hydrogen and CNG was tested with great success.

http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/809099-mlGfzw/native/809099.PDF

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